Yes, Absolute BULLSHIT! It's easy to spot bullshit, toady. Because every time your bullshit is challenged, you just make up more bullshit. For example, "All of the figures released show WHAT things? That hospitals are being stretched to their limits--Bullshit! That the number of vaccinations, will determine your chances of living or dying--Bullshit! That these lab-created genetic codes, on a monkey cold viral vector, is much better than our natural immune response--Bullshit! That it is prudent to infect our kids and babies, with a disease that their system is more than capable of fighting--Bullshit! That the 12,229 new cases in NSW(0.1% of pop), would mean that at least 6,236 are unvaccinated, and 5,992 are doubly vaccinated--Bullshit! And, that being doubly vaccinated will prevent you from becoming infected, transmitting, or dying from this virus--Bullshit!NOT bullshit, dickwad! All the figures released show the same thing.
This is the last time, so I'll keep it simple.What reasons are those?
Do you wear a seat belt when you get in a car?This is the last time, so I'll keep it simple.
I was vaccinated for childhood diseases. And so were my children. It is a prudent precaution, and can avoid years of misery for our children. It is safe, and has years of science supporting its efficacy. These vaccines also use REAL ATTENUATED/MODIFIED VIRUSES within the vaccine itself. This allows our immune system to respond to a real pathogen or a real antigen. This means that our antibodies can identify even the variants of the pathogen.
But these mRNA vaccines are different, rushed, and not fully tested. We don't fully know what is in them. The company are indemnity-proof. The FOI act doesn't apply until 2096. No country or person can sue them ever. It requires that all governments follow the conditions of their contracts to the letter, or suffer grave consequences on a national scale. These vaccines cause normal healthy muscle cells to start genetically producing viral spike proteins(translation). These spikes induce the production of antigen-specific, low-spectrum, high affinity antibodies only! Look at it this way.
You are a car the size of a virus. There are many parts to the car. Some parts are very essential, and some parts not as much. You attach yourself to a cell by the steering wheel. You then send your engine into the cell, or drive the whole can into the cell. Once inside, you use your engine to steal the engine of the cell, and begin making the parts to create more cars. Once there are too many cars, the cell will explode. Thus alerting our immune system.
This mRNA vaccines replicates only the steering wheel on the car. The vaccine induced antibodies can only see the steering wheel of this specific car. They can't see the headlights, hood, or the taillights, If the steering wheel has a fuzzy dice or religious beads on it(variants), the vaccine becomes useless. And, our natural immune system will take over. These normal antibodies will see the entire car. Changing models or the steering wheel won't affect them.
Are you really saying that all these people died because they were unvaccinated? Are you really this stupid and gullible. Viruses don't kill you dumb-dumb-2. Your immune response, and the subsequent infections is what kills you. How many of these people had other underlying, or chronic health issues as well? I guess we can't let context and honesty, get in the way of spreading this contrived bullshit narrative, right. "Get vaccinated and live, don't and you die.".
Even if I received just a "Thank you for showing up" letter from "goody goodtime U", it would still be a better education, than anyone who can't think for themselves. Try reading a book instead of sleeping under one.Wonder what doctorate/degree our resident anti-vaxer has?
The figures show that the unvaxxed and the single jabbed, despite being a tiny minority make up the bulk of hospital admissions and deaths.Yes, Absolute BULLSHIT! It's easy to spot bullshit, toady. Because every time your bullshit is challenged, you just make up more bullshit. For example, "All of the figures released show WHAT things? That hospitals are being stretched to their limits--Bullshit! That the number of vaccinations, will determine your chances of living or dying--Bullshit! That these lab-created genetic codes, on a monkey cold viral vector, is much better than our natural immune response--Bullshit! That it is prudent to infect our kids and babies, with a disease that their system is more than capable of fighting--Bullshit! That the 12,229 new cases in NSW(0.1% of pop), would mean that at least 6,236 are unvaccinated, and 5,992 are doubly vaccinated--Bullshit! And, that being doubly vaccinated will prevent you from becoming infected, transmitting, or dying from this virus--Bullshit!
So again, what figures?? How many do you think will recover? Vaxxed or unvaxxed?
Seth, I'm not going to go into the sample size fallacy, because of your cognitive bias. For example, if I took a sample of 100 people. 95 people were doubly vaccinated, and 5 people were unvaccinated. 5 people died with Covid-19 from both groups. Does this mean that if you are unvaccinated, that you will have a 100% chance of dying? Or, if vaccinated only a 5.3% chance of dying? Or, is 19 times more likely of surviving, if you are vaccinated? It is NOT about the stats, it is about the interpretation of the stats.@Shellandshilo1956 Every study I can find shows that being vaccinated lowers the risk of Covid-related serious illness, hospitalization, and death. And the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated is dramatic.
To understand how the pandemic is evolving, it’s crucial to know how death rates from COVID-19 are affected by vaccination status.ourworldindata.org
Do you deny this?
I understand what you are saying and I see your logic as well. However, I haven't had a flu shot since ... I don't remember ... maybe when I was in the Army 1965-67. So, no "we" don't get a flu shot every year. I can't think of anyone here who does.We get jabbed with the flu shot every year. Viruses mutate.
I mean, just imagine. Governments can now force the entire world population to stick something into their arms. What could possibly go wrong? Not everyone at Jonestown wanted to drink the Kool Aid.From another Discussion Forum:
" ... virtually all of the people who aren’t vaccinated are never going to get vaccinated while all the people who are vaccinated are going to continue getting vaccinated forever. "
An interesting notion.
Well, Shell, you've earned yourself a lengthy reply to chew on.Seth, I'm not going to go into the sample size fallacy, because of your cognitive bias. For example, if I took a sample of 100 people. 95 people were doubly vaccinated, and 5 people were unvaccinated. 5 people died with Covid-19 from both groups. Does this mean that if you are unvaccinated, that you will have a 100% chance of dying? Or, if vaccinated only a 5.3% chance of dying? Or, is 19 times more likely of surviving, if you are vaccinated? It is NOT about the stats, it is about the interpretation of the stats.
So your 2nd source I disagree with, and have explained why(sample size fallacy).
Regarding your 1st source about NSW health facts, here is something that stood out to me.
"There were 8,660 cases who were hospitalised, 1,015 admitted to ICU and 412 who died with COVID-19. Of these, 493 of the hospitalised, 30 of those admitted to ICU and 47 of those who died had received two doses of vaccine. Of the 47 cases who died with COVID-19 who had two doses of vaccine, their average age was 82 years; 29 (61.7%) were residents of aged care facilities and the other 18 had significant comorbidities. Of the 30 admitted to ICU, 26 (86.7%) had significant co-morbidities and 4 had no reported comorbid conditions. ".
This at least explained WHO were in the hospitals, and why they died. Not simply saying that unvaccinated people are overwhelming our hospitals. As you can see, there are other variables to consider.
Look, a debate is NOT one-directional. You can tell me that more unvaccinated people have died in hospital than vaccinated people. But when I show you where a headless unvaccinated women with Covid-19, is counted as dying from covid-19, then you must address that point. What do people actually die of? What were the people in the hospital for, in the first place? Any scientist knows, that viruses don't kill their hosts.
But you just ignore every point I make, and go into repeat soundbites and cliché mode. One person even says that I care more about my wellbeing, than my being vaccinated. This is how silly this madness has gotten. I raise these questions for answers. But all I get is excuses and insults. If you don't know the answers, then just don't comment.
My point has always been, you can do whatever you believe will make you feel safe and secure. What you want to do to your body is none of my business. But what you want to do to MY body IS my business. When I see all these extreme measures to force man woman and child to be jabbed with this poison, red flags pop up. Why hold our jobs and freedoms to ransom, to force our compliance? Why infect our own children with this poison? Why create a vaccine culture of vaccinated Australians against unvaccinated Australians? Why is the Government so desperate to reach 100% vaccinated? Does anyone here think that at 100% vaccinated, that no one will be infected, spread, or die from this virus? It only means, that only vaccinated people will by catching and dying from this virus. Just madness!
I have a pretty long attention span.Well, Shell, you've earned yourself a lengthy reply to chew on.
The "death rate" is based entirely on the "death numbers" and the total infection numbers Seth. Both matter, vaccinated or not. So, I disagree.Let's talk about that 2nd source for a moment. In the first part of the article, the author is simply explaining why death numbers don't matter when comparing vaccinated people with unvaccinated people. The author made up some numbers to illustrate the point. The point was that death rates are what matter when comparing vaccinated vs unvaccinated, not death numbers.
Agree. I have been trying to focus people on the mortality rate, recovery rates, and both rates in context with the entire population. A deceitful claim would be to look at a result, take ONE factor as the only causality, and dismiss/ignore any other relevant causalities. Like you are doing now. Maybe you can show me why a vaccinated immune system is overall better than an unvaccinated immune sytem? Without using stats! These stats/data show only a partial truth. You are just trying to pass these results off as the whole truth. This is just untrue.Like you, I keep up on the news and contemporary opinion. And I have heard the rather breathless claim, "Just as many vaccinated people died from Covid as unvaccinated people!" in a given day, week or month. But that is a deceitful claim. It may be true when you only count the numbers, but it's not telling the true story.
I don't know why you are trying to complicate simplicity with numbers. The mortality rate doesn't give a brass razoo about whether or not you are vaccinated. Or, about the pecentage of vaxxed and unvaxxed that are in the society. It is based only on the percentage of people who have died with Covid-19, and the number of people who have acquired Covid-19. Whether a person is vaccinated or not, they still must use their immune system. Therefore, we need to look at other factors that have contributed to these deaths. Which I have already listed. And, this IS about the numbers of deaths Seth. Not about these manufactured hypotheticals, and crystal-balling "what if's" sophistry.In Australia, 77.5% of your population is fully vaccinated. So let's say 100 Australians all get the disease. 77 of them are fully vaccinated. 23 of them are not vaccinated. Two of the 100 die, one vaccinated, and one not vaccinated. It is deceitful to then headline the fact that "just as many vaccinated people died as did unvaccinated people." Because the death rate is very different between the two groups, and that is what really matters.
The problem that we both know about stats/data, is that they can be manipulated to mean anything you want. I wonder what the stats in the hospitals of other states would show? Politicians use data to spin any story they want. How many of these infected unvaxxed people were admitted to hospital because of their Covid-19? Or, for other reasons that were incidental to the disease? How many people were held in hospital only as a result of being tested positive for Covid-19? All that is relevant here, are the numbers of Covid-19 victims in the ICU's, who are on respirators, or what were the real comorbidities that contributed to their death? The rest can create whatever optics you want.Say what you want about statistics, but they are what they are. And from those statistics we may logically conclude that the vaccines are reducing the severity of this illness and saving lives.
There is just no other conclusion we can draw. For me, this is not "cognitive bias", Shell. If the statistics pointed us to a different conclusion, I would see it and reach a different conclusion.
Totally agree with this. What is your view about the mandate to vaccinate 5year olds?I'm generally with you as far as the restrictions, mandates, and firing people from their jobs. My personal opinion is that we should be respectful of our elderly, understanding that they are more vulnerable to this disease. So where do they need to go the most? They need to go food shopping and to doctors offices. So I don't mind putting on a mask and keeping my distance from people in grocery stores and medical facilities, out of respect for them, even if the efficacy of those things is questionable. I don't care. It is not a great burden if it helps keep them safe, even if only a little bit.
But aside from that, I favor relaxing the restrictions. I favor letting people decide if they want to get vaccinated, wear a mask, go to crowded places, travel, etc, and I definitely think children need to get back in school.
Not sure what you wanted to point out. Other than denial and that you disagree with me, what specifically did you want to point out?Now I'm going to quote you and point something out ... quoting you: