Why should people be forced to get vaccinated in order to protect others who choose not to get vaccinated??

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Shellandshilo1956

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You've no idea what you;re talking about. The SARS stands for 'severe acute respiratory syndrome;; both the SARS outbreak and the Covid outbreak have the acronym, 'SARS in the name, (SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV 2 respectively) but aside from both being coronaviruses, they are quite distinct.

Covid isn't caused a by a virus that has evolved from the virus that caused SARS or MERS.

Is this some other batshit conspiracy theory of yours?
Look, it doesn't matter how much information I keep depositing about these viruses from the same phylogenetic group(Sarbecovirus). You still don't care. You don't care about their similarities, genotypes, taxonomy, phenotype, or the pathogenesis of all these beta- coronaviruses(including MERS). And, YES there is a reason WHY the SARS and CoV-1&2 names are given. And, its not because these viruses are distinct from one another(which in a since they are from their parent's genome), but because they are similar(80% genetically similar at least). Anyway, you can read the science, and just rationalize it away. I don't really care.


My only point is, that if you're trying to convince me, that there is a factual scientific rationale for infecting myself with this experimental vaccine, then lets here it. That if this virus is so deadly that my natural immune system needs help from this vaccine, then lets see the evidence? If you want to infect yourself with this vaccine, that is your right/choice. But why must I be forced to infect myself against my will? Doesn't this set a dangerous precedence? And finally, what is this conspiracy theory, that I am supposedly saying? I thought that I was only pointing out facts? And, the reasons why I won't go anywhere near these TYPEs of vaccine.

Do the facts justify the hype? Are the facts I deposit NOT true? Isn't the mortality of any disease more important than its virulence or its transmissibility? I believe that the facts just don't justify the hype! There is no conspiracy theory here. Just reality.
 

stunspore

Member

Shellandshilo1956

Active member

Not to add too much to this, since our resident antivaxxer is not open to being wrong. One who is less about science and more about economics/politics/"freedom".
Oh, I'm open to being wrong, the minute you can explain why I am. Since you won't answer my questions, it is YOU with the closed mind. What specifically is this scientific evidence/explanation that you are talking about? Never mind, you don't have a clue. Here's a simple question. Why should anyone who has recovered from Covid-19, be forced to be vaccinate for Covid-19?? Let's hear the science? Please don't say "variants".

According to your reference site, its okay for people to smoke, to drink, to be vaccinated, and to be obese. Because the chronic dangers and associated illnesses are NOT ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN!! Cowards and conmen state opinions as facts, by exploiting absolute certainty. Experts state facts only as degrees of certainty. Just because nothing is perfect, doesn't mean that nothing exists!

Sometimes, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing indeed!!
 

stunspore

Member
No Shell, you aren't open to debate. You have stuck firmly to your position. You refused to consider experts who have PhDs and with far stronger knowledge and analytical base. You have statistics from many sources. You are firmly wedded to your "wellbeing"/"antivax"/"conspiracy" ideas.
I'm no expert but i'm smart enough to listen to a consensus of them. And no, this is not the same as the middle ages about the consensus of a flat world vs. galileo. Science and scientific method has advanced to a state, where consensus is pretty good at providing enough details to make health decisions.
 
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stunspore

Member
You mention to not mention variants. An example are variants - they can only exist, if surviving covid virus have a chance to mutate and replicate. Preventing people from catching covid, means there won't a next generation that might mutate.

Examine how superbugs exist in the first place, and why existing antibiotics have a harder time killing them.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
No Shell, you aren't open to debate. You have stuck firmly to your position. You refused to consider experts who have PhDs and with far stronger knowledge and analytical base. You have statistics from many sources. You are firmly wedded to your "wellbeing"/"antivax"/"conspiracy" ideas.
YES stunspore, I am open to being wrong on anything. It is YOU and this crew that are stuck on avoidance, misrepresentation, distraction, and fallacy modes.

Since you keep appealing to authority, what are the specific claims by me, that contradict the claims by these experts and PhD's? How vaccines work? How the immune system and immune response work? Any of my stats or data on this virus? Deaths and infections, relative to the population? Surely, you can find something specific, to backup this claim?

I have no idea what conspiracy theory you are talking about. Everything I've said can easily be verified, and is happening in real-time. I am also only anti-genetic based vaccines. This is because there are no pathogens/antigens in the vaccine itself. The vaccine forces the body to genetically produce its own pathogens/antigens, to induce an immune response. This also produces the wrong type of highly specific antibodies, that will eventually weaken the immune system over time. So, NOT an Anti-vaxxer! Just an Anti-this-vaxxer.

And, YES, I am into my own wellbeing. Is this wrong?

I'm no expert but i'm smart enough to listen to a consensus of them. And no, this is not the same as the middle ages about the consensus of a flat world vs. galileo. Science and scientific method has advanced to a state, where consensus is pretty good at providing enough details to make health decisions.
What's the relevance here? And, Yes, you are clearly no expert. But before I consent to anyone sticking anything into by body, I will become an expert real fast. Especially, when someone is openly trying to coerce my decision.

Why would you need to force 100% of a population to stick something with adverse events into their arms, because less that 1% of the population is infected with a disease, that 99% of the population don't even have? This just doesn't make sense. What percentage of the population have diabetes, are obese, or have lung and heart diseases? Yet, we don't close down the tobacco, fast-food, or the alcohol industries, do we??

You mention to not mention variants. An example are variants - they can only exist, if surviving covid virus have a chance to mutate and replicate. Preventing people from catching covid, means there won't a next generation that might mutate.
And exactly how do you prevent people from catching the SARS-CoV-2 virus? These high numbers of mutations occur, because the virus is trying to avoid detection from our immune system. And is reacting to these vaccine induced antibodies. But by using our natural antibodies, it can't!

Examine how superbugs exist in the first place, and why existing antibiotics have a harder time killing them.
Firstly superbugs only apply to bacteria, NOT VIRUSES! Antibiotics don't work on viruses, because they can't attack their cell walls, or their enzymatic or genetic processes(while inside the cell). Remember viruses go inside of the cells. Bacteria are outside of the cell. Antibiotics can either kill or slow down the growth of bacteria, without affecting an immune response(unlike a viral pathogen). And, bacteria become superbugs through normal evolutionary adaptation. Just like all life. Including this virus.

Now I have told you that I am an anti-vaxxer on THESE vaccines only. And, I've told you why. So stop saying that I am an anti-vaxxer. And, since you can't tell me what the conspiracy theory is that I am claiming, please stop calling me a conspiracy theorists.
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho 💉💉
Staff member
People that are not vaxxed have a MUCH higher chance of serious illness or death from COVID. Health services are dangerously stretched because of the high number of unvaxxed with COVID.

Talk of “poison” “genetic inducing” (whatever the fuck that means) and “experimental vaccine” tho they all went through the usual test routine just shows—conspiracy theory/antivaxxer.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I'm just calling it as it is seen by any reasonable person.
A reasonable person would never make such claims in the first place. And if they did, they would be able to support their own position. People who just jump on the bandwagon can't do either. Their entire rationale is based only on the consensus of the majority's beliefs, not a consensus of the facts. Again, what you choose to do is your business. Just don't try to shove it down my throat.

People that are not vaxxed have a MUCH higher chance of serious illness or death from COVID. Health services are dangerously stretched because of the high number of unvaxxed with COVID.
Bullshit! Just more parroted nonsense! There are over 20.72K hospital beds in Australia. Only 3,979 people are hospitalized. Including, 69 people in ICU's. Hardly being dangerously stretched to the limits. Just more irresponsible fear and panic mongering.

Most of the people admitted to hospital, were admitted because they have tested positive for Covid-19, and told that they must temporarily stay at the hospital(paperwork). Or, they were admitted for other illnesses, which included testing positive for Covid-19! People like you are just part of the problem. By spreading all this misinformation, and half-truths. Good boy!

Talk of “poison” “genetic inducing” (whatever the fuck that means) and “experimental vaccine” tho they all went through the usual test routine just shows—conspiracy theory/antivaxxer.
Anything that didn't come with the body, is treated by the body(immune system) as a poison. Since vaccines use genetic translation to cause normal muscle cells to make viral spike proteins, the creation of these spikes are genetically induced by the vaccine. It is a biological fact, that the immune system treats these spike proteins as a poison.

I don't really care if you want to stay in denial. Or, if you feel that you have been chosen to vanguard unsupported fear and panic-mongering. Or, to spread lies, misinformation, and half-truths. I suppose, that there will always be misguided and ignorant people like you. It's not your fault.

Name calling? Maybe you can explain WHY I am an anti-vaxxer to THIS vaccine. Or, WHAT exactly is the conspiracy theory that I'm peddling? Didn't think so.
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho 💉💉
Staff member
I didn’t get the Pfizer.

You are becoming ridiculous. Over 93% double vaxxed.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I didn’t get the Pfizer.

You are becoming ridiculous. Over 93% double vaxxed.

Is there a physiological advantage for being singularly or doubly vaxxed? Do you even know why you need to be double vaxxed at least? Other than for some therapeutic advantage that differs from person to person, what is the purpose? The virulence(severity) of the disease depends ONLY on the condition of the immune system.

Even if 100% of the people are vaxxed, it will only mean, that now only vaxxed people will be infected, spreading, and dying from this virus. Then you will be saying, that double vaxxed people are dying more than triple vaxxed people? Just sad!!

Again, if you feel that being vaccinated will save you from dying from this disease, then go for it. But why the need to force over 3.5M workers(transport, hospitality, teachers, federal cops, healthcare, construction, and aviation/airline) to choose between jab or job? Or, do you believe that these people have a fair choice? Now the pensions are being attacked to reach the 100% mark. Supermarkets are also affected by all the fear and panic mongering(covid panic buying). Maybe those unvaxxed are afraid that the government will withhold them from accessing food and other basic necessities. Just wait to the looting and violence start. If you push people far enough, and long enough, they will fight back. It will all be because of sheeples like you.

No, you people are completely influenced by the media, and all of its hype and disinformation. Definitely not facts or the science. You don't care about the harm these fascist policies are doing to the country and the people. And in your twisted mind, any one who points out even the most obvious contradictions, are labeled as anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists.

You are the sheeples who rationalize everything you're told by your masters. You are the people too lazy to think for themselves. You are the ones who are ridiculous. And, if you did address any of my questions, you would see just HOW ridiculous you really are!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Single vaxxed people suffer nearly as badly as unvaxxed people.
Just more bullshit after bullshit. How do you know this? You have no idea, and certainly no evidence to back this up. What does the vaccine do to give double vaxxers an advantage over single vaxxers? What is IN the second dose that is different than the first? You don't have a clue do you? You're just another good company man parroting what the company tells you. In spite of the evidence, that clearly shows you why this is insane!!

Like I've said, just keep rationalizing like a good boy to keep your masters happy. Now the media is saying that parents are asking(no evidence of this) to extend the school holidays, to allow them more time to poison their own children. By giving them a vaccine that they definitely don't need. And this psycho-government is now accommodating them. It is one thing to voluntarily allow yourself to become infected with an antigen of this virus. But to allow your own innocent and trusting children to become infected, takes a very special kind of human being. Kids don't need to wear masked, but they are now forced to be vaccinated? And this makes sense?
 

greggerypeccary

Active member
Just more bullshit after bullshit. How do you know this? You have no idea, and certainly no evidence to back this up. What does the vaccine do to give double vaxxers an advantage over single vaxxers? What is IN the second dose that is different than the first? You don't have a clue do you? You're just another good company man parroting what the company tells you. In spite of the evidence, that clearly shows you why this is insane!!

Like I've said, just keep rationalizing like a good boy to keep your masters happy. Now the media is saying that parents are asking(no evidence of this) to extend the school holidays, to allow them more time to poison their own children. By giving them a vaccine that they definitely don't need. And this psycho-government is now accommodating them. It is one thing to voluntarily allow yourself to become infected with an antigen of this virus. But to allow your own innocent and trusting children to become infected, takes a very special kind of human being. Kids don't need to wear masked, but they are now forced to be vaccinated? And this makes sense?
Are you opposed to all child vaccinations?
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho 💉💉
Staff member
NOT bullshit, dickwad! All the figures released show the same thing.
 
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