Why should people be forced to get vaccinated in order to protect others who choose not to get vaccinated??

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Crackey

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In two years since the start of the pandemic, there have been Covid cases reported in the U.S. that are the equivalent of approaching one fifth of our population. We will reach that one fifth mark soon, what with the huge spike in new cases we are having now.
Right, let us begin there. It has been reported by independent but reputable sources that COVID has been given the blame for deaths previously attributed to other pre-COVID era ailments. Some kind of tweaking going on I guess?
I realize that there are differences between Australia and the U.S. that effect the spread of the virus in our countries. But your new cases are now spiking up dramatically. The cat is out of the bag, so to speak.
"Mine"?
So when Chris says, “Get used to it”, my interpretation of that is a recognition that we are not going to beat this pandemic by containment measures (locking down and all sorts of restrictions).
You may interpret him as you like. It has nothing to do with me.
We’ve tried that, and it worked somewhat for a while, but the effort has failed. So now we live with it.
OK ........
In my opinion, eventually the virus will work its way through a large segment of your population just like it has in the U.S.
“My population” again?
Of course, the upside of that is that all those people who survive the infection are going to be left with a natural immunity.
Correct.
We can lessen the symptoms by being vaccinated.
I’m not sure we can say that yet. “My population” suffered deaths from injections of Astra-Zeneca. I was forced to have them anyway because it was decided that citizens in my age group are less likely to die from Astra-Zeneca injections than younger people despite a number of us “oldies” dying from it anyway. Why was I given that dose despite the risk? I’ll let you figure that out but I should tell you that “my population” is co-founder/manufacturer of the stuff.

The bottom line is that there has been a great increase in corruption going on at government levels. Does that mean we should protest and fight against every political suggestion and seek out conspiracy in absolutely everything? No. What it does mean is that we must accept that the percentage of the disenchanted is growing and they have exceptionally legitimate reasons for being sceptical.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
Right, let us begin there. It has been reported by independent but reputable sources that COVID has been given the blame for deaths previously attributed to other pre-COVID era ailments. Some kind of tweaking going on I guess?

"Mine"?

You may interpret him as you like. It has nothing to do with me.

OK ........

“My population” again?

Correct.

I’m not sure we can say that yet. “My population” suffered deaths from injections of Astra-Zeneca. I was forced to have them anyway because it was decided that citizens in my age group are less likely to die from Astra-Zeneca injections than younger people despite a number of us “oldies” dying from it anyway. Why was I given that dose despite the risk? I’ll let you figure that out but I should tell you that “my population” is co-founder/manufacturer of the stuff.

The bottom line is that there has been a great increase in corruption going on at government levels. Does that mean we should protest and fight against every political suggestion and seek out conspiracy in absolutely everything? No. What it does mean is that we must accept that the percentage of the disenchanted is growing and they have exceptionally legitimate reasons for being sceptical.
Apparently, your people are not Australians. I just assumed that they were.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
@Crackey So you’re British?

Yes, there has been some controversy over whether some people have died from Covid or if they were going to die soon from something else, and Covid just sped up the process. Nevertheless, it’s safe to say that this disease is a lot more deadly than flu.

I too am very cynical about government. But I was vaccinated with 2 doses of the Moderna vaccine in January/February of last year. In July I got Covid. I’m 66, and my symptoms were mild, and they were completely gone 5 days after I tested positive. I believe the vaccination helped me fight the infection and recover quickly.

I favor getting vaccinated, but I am opposed to vaccination mandates. I think people should get vaccinated because they choose to, not because they are being forced to.

Seth
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Whether or not I agree or disagree with you in part or in full (nah, definitely not in full) I find this one question particularly profound 👉

And the answer? What would we reply? I wonder.
Thank you, I think. Although I don't know what part you would disagree with, or why you are speaking in the narrative, I suppose that nothing is perfect.

But the short answer is YES! Anyone telling me about an upcoming viral apocalypse, where the government would shut down the country, quarantine its people, and destroy many lives and opportunities, would sound like a conspiracy theory to me.

But the whole point of the post, was to point out the IRONY. Anyone saying that this was just a conspiracy theory back then would not be questioned. But anyone questioning what is actually happening in real-time now, after the fact, are now called conspiracy theorists.
 

chris155au

Active member
You need to understand the meaning of "getting used" to something.
It's VERY simple! You should get used to the idea that Omicron is coming for your area! Simple question: are you actually stupid enough to believe that your area will remain COVID free for the rest of time?
 

Crackey

New member
Apparently, your people are not Australians. I just assumed that they were.
No harm done.
So you’re British?
No, I'm not.
Yes, there has been some controversy over whether some people have died from Covid ....
The controversy (from the nay-sayers point of view) focuses on just how dangerous those drugs are or what percentage of deaths-by-vaccination is acceptable.
.... I was vaccinated with 2 doses of the Moderna vaccine in January/February of last year. In July I got Covid. I’m 66, and my symptoms were mild, and they were completely gone 5 days after I tested positive.
I am soon to be 75 and I was vaccinated with 2 doses of Astra-Zeneca. I experienced no discomfort whatsoever from either of them.
I believe the vaccination helped me fight the infection and recover quickly.
Yeah, and I believe we are here on this earth because Eva ate an apple from a serpent's perch in the orchard of paradise.
I favor getting vaccinated, but I am opposed to vaccination mandates. I think people should get vaccinated because they choose to, not because they are being forced to.
Seth
So, the bottom line is that we only disagree on one or two minor issues.
 

Crackey

New member
It's your story, I'm just trying to get you to elaborate further. When did the 'conspiracy after conspiracy' that you claimed had been 'proven to be true' happen?
I won't be wasting any more time with your silliness on this subject. If you want me to play then put on your smart cap.
 

Crackey

New member
Thank you, I think. Although I don't know what part you would disagree with, or why you are speaking in the narrative, I suppose that nothing is perfect.

But the short answer is YES! Anyone telling me about an upcoming viral apocalypse, where the government would shut down the country, quarantine its people, and destroy many lives and opportunities, would sound like a conspiracy theory to me.

But the whole point of the post, was to point out the IRONY. Anyone saying that this was just a conspiracy theory back then would not be questioned. But anyone questioning what is actually happening in real-time now, after the fact, are now called conspiracy theorists.
I agree with you.
 

Crackey

New member
What's an example of him trying to sell you "excrement?"
His lack of logic and making absurd conclusions. As a joke it's fine. Better than fine. But he's trying to sell it as insight and it doesn't wash.
It's VERY simple! You should get used to the idea that Omicron is coming for your area! Simple question: are you actually stupid enough to believe that your area will remain COVID free for the rest of time?
Ho-hum. :stoopid
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
The bottom line is that there has been a great increase in corruption going on at government levels. Does that mean we should protest and fight against every political suggestion and seek out conspiracy in absolutely everything? No. What it does mean is that we must accept that the percentage of the disenchanted is growing and they have exceptionally legitimate reasons for being sceptical.
This is very well said. And, it is refreshing to to read this level of depth of insight. However, the below comments sound a bit ambiguous to me. Maybe you could elaborate further.

"I’m not sure we can say that yet. “My population” suffered deaths from injections of Astra-Zeneca. I was forced to have them anyway because it was decided that citizens in my age group are less likely to die from Astra-Zeneca injections than younger people despite a number of us “oldies” dying from it anyway. Why was I given that dose despite the risk? I’ll let you figure that out but I should tell you that “my population” is co-founder/manufacturer of the stuff.".

The highlighted areas, are what I find a bit ambiguous.
 
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johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
I won't be wasting any more time with your silliness on this subject. If you want me to play then put on your smart cap.
I'm not sure what you're struggling with. You said
These are very difficult times when conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory have been proven to be true.
That was your claim. All I want to know is what conspiracies do you think have been proven to be true. It's not silliness, it's a fairly simple question for which you seem to be looking for excuses to not answer.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
That was your claim. All I want to know is what conspiracies do you think have been proven to be true. It's not silliness, it's a fairly simple question for which you seem to be looking for excuses to not answer.
Here are a few, that I can think of.

That the the US(CIA) was testing LSD as a mind control drug for behavior modification.
That the FBI was spying on John Lennon.
That the military was developing a gay bomb, to make enemy soldiers want each other.
That the Gulf of Tonkin incident was fake.
That the tobacco companies knew for decades that cigarettes caused cancer.
That Canada tried to develop, "Gaydar". A machine to detect Homosexuals.
That the US government poisoned booze during prohibition(legalized murder).
The Watergate scandal.
The Abraham Lincoln assassination Conspiracy.
That Pedophilia existed in the church.
That a Bayer's product caused Aids.
The conspiracy that launched the Gulf War(incubators taken and babies left to die).
That 98M Americans received potentially cancer-causing polio vaccines.
That the US sold weapons to Iran(illegal), and used the money to support Nicaraguan militants.

Want more? All these once believed a conspiracies, were later proven to be true. Did you think that NO conspiracy theory could be true?
 
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Crackey

New member
This is very well said. And, it is refreshing to to read this level of depth of insight. However, the below comments sound a bit ambiguous to me. Maybe you could elaborate further.

"I’m not sure we can say that yet. “My population” suffered deaths from injections of Astra-Zeneca. I was forced to have them anyway because it was decided that citizens in my age group are less likely to die from Astra-Zeneca injections than younger people despite a number of us “oldies” dying from it anyway. Why was I given that dose despite the risk? I’ll let you figure that out but I should tell you that “my population” is co-founder/manufacturer of the stuff.".

The highlighted areas, are what I find a bit ambiguous.
We have no choice in vaccination. It is assigned to us. Because of my age, Astra-Zeneca was the one I got. I might have preferred another manufacturer but ...... I was compelled to take that one. Astra-Zeneca (at that time, anyway) was being rejected by several countries because an unacceptable number of recipients were suffering blood clotting and dying from it. If you want numbers you'll have to look it up, I can't be bothered. It was found that people in my age bracket were less likely to die from the Astra-Zeneca injections, so that's what we got.

It is my assumption that despite Astra-Zaneka being banned in several (many?) countries the industry needed the money but that's my logical guess and it's not necessarily true. It was a bit worrying that other countries considered it too dangerous yet I had no choice but to accept it.

This link is interesting but it doesn't mention that it was not ENTIRELY suspended/banned. As I said, of an older age the thing was administered without hesitation.

 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
We have no choice in vaccination. It is assigned to us. Because of my age, Astra-Zeneca was the one I got. I might have preferred another manufacturer but ...... I was compelled to take that one. Astra-Zeneca (at that time, anyway) was being rejected by several countries because an unacceptable number of recipients were suffering blood clotting and dying from it. If you want numbers you'll have to look it up, I can't be bothered. It was found that people in my age bracket were less likely to die from the Astra-Zeneca injections, so that's what we got.

It is my assumption that despite Astra-Zaneka being banned in several (many?) countries the industry needed the money but that's my logical guess and it's not necessarily true. It was a bit worrying that other countries considered it too dangerous yet I had no choice but to accept it.

This link is interesting but it doesn't mention that it was not ENTIRELY suspended/banned. As I said, of an older age the thing was administered without hesitation.

Thank you for sharing. In Australia, people who have been infected in the 70yo population, over the last 2 years, have a 4% chance of dying(504 deaths/12,289 cases) with this disease. Or, a 96% chance of recovering naturally. For those 80yo, it's 13%(786/6,224). Or, an 88% chance of recovery. And, for those 90yo, it's 10%(517/2,114). Or, a 90% chance of recovering. Vaccinated or not!

Now this is assuming that the victims had no other underlying health issues at all. In most countries, as long as you die WITH the disease, you have died FROM the disease. You are then added to the list(especially in the US). Thus, artificially inflating the numbers. So if a 90yo grandma dies from double pneumonia, chronic congestive heart failure, and a missing head, as long as she had tested positive for Covid-19, she is added to the list of dying from Covid-19 complications. I suppose it is not technically false. But it is certainly misleading, and intellectually dishonest. But we are talking politics, right?

We are also talking about a viral disease that has a mortality rate lower than Hepatitis A or the Measles(UNVACCINATED!!)


Although, the link between AstraZeneca, and the autoimmune response causing TTS has been scientifically proven, it is still very rare(3 in 100,000). What happens is, when someone sticks this poison into your arm, there is a chance that some of it may leak into the bloodstream. When this happens those vaccine induced mutated cells, begin to attract a specific protein in the blood(platelet factor 4). The immune system can sometimes mistake this platelet factor 4 protein for the virus. When that happens, antibodies attack this factor by mistake, producing a clot.


Even when using Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccines, there is a small chance of developing Myocarditis and Endocarditis in the under 30yo population(10 per Million with the 1st dose, and 67 per Million with the 2nd dose). To me, this is absolutely unnecessary. And, the benefits do NOT outweigh the costs. You can look up the pathway to these diseases.

What is frightening to me, is that even after these "adverse events" start piling up, and more countries start banning these poisons, and these vaccines keep producing more and more variances, people will still keep believing whatever they're being told. Which means, people will just keep rationalizing, "BELIEF", verses LOGIC. I believe, that after 6-8 doses of these poisons, people just won't care anymore. This is a dangerous slippery slope. People are just so afraid of being wrong, that they just don't want to know the truth.

All this from a company that won't tell you everything that is in their product. A company that is free from any legal indemnity in case things go sideways. A company that makes whole governments libel if they violate their contract. And now, governments must use mandates to force unvaccinated people to comply, to keep up with supply? This is just madness!!

98.2% of everyone in the world with Covid-19 have fucking survived. Every unvaccinated Covid-19 survivor does not have to worry about any variances of this virus. Only 0.07% of the world's population have died from this virus, or with this virus. Therefore, you are voluntarily giving yourself an viral illness, when 97% of the world population is not even infected. Where your chances of survival, if infected, is over 98%. Vaccinated or not! So why all the panicking and fear-mongering?

I really wish people would just smash all their fucking boob-tubes. And, stop listening to what these paid media actors/personalities are telling them. Just look at the facts, and do a little research on their own. Listen to what ISN'T said, not to only what is said. Look at the facts that are NOT being shown, not just the facts that are.

Again, thanks for sharing. I won't press you on,

"I’ll let you figure that out but I should tell you that “my population” is co-founder/manufacturer of the stuff.".

because I think I understand. Again, it is refreshing.
 
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