SA: COVID cases and deaths rise

Linus

Member
If Shell had read the abc article: https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2022-07-29/covid-19-three-myths-challenge-lies-ahead/101274980
then...
What are your responses in particular to Myth #1? That those that survive are now more likely to suffer poorer health outcomes like the paragraph:
"The risk of cardiovascular disease, for example, increased after one infection, but doubled in people who had two infections, and tripled in those who had been infected thrice.

The numbers translate into 50 extra cases of heart disease per 1,000 people who've had COVID-19 twice."

There's also myths #2 and #3.
Is that for Shell or me?

Ahh, nix that, it's for Ubermensche , Shell, and her evolving immune system...

At least Goodnow will be wearing his mask and we can infer he'll be doing all the other stuff like washing hands, sanitisers, distancing, limiting social interaction, all of which Shell rejects.

Her Ubermensche evolving immune system will take care of her and stuff the rest of us untermensch media-whipped dupes and fools.
 
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stunspore

Member
Is that for Shell or me?

Ahh, nix that, it's for Ubermensche , Shell, and her evolving immune system...

At least Goodnow will be wearing his mask and we can infer he'll be doing all the other stuff like washing hands, sanitisers, distancing, limiting social interaction, all of which Shell rejects.

Her Ubermensche evolving immune system will take care of her and stuff the rest of us untermensch media-whipped dupes and fools.
And Shell's thoughts - that there are no side effects or long term negative effects of having covid. And if you died - it was from something else and not covid. Doesn't matter if covid exacerbated existing issues or cause damage - it wasn't covid's fault at all. You are weak and so evolution taking it cause, removed you from the gene pool.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
And the broken vinyl plays on....:sleep:

Whilst perusing various threads in the forums, I did come across Mothra quoting Noam Chomsky. I always appreciated Noam's courage and incisive analysis. And there I saw Shell give a like to that quote.

I surmise that Shell has a similar appreciation of this towering intellectual figure. I wonder if she ever had a tete-a-tete with him whether she'd accuse him of being a SHEEPLE in the thrall of a powerful conspiratorial media. Or whether the penny would drop and she'd realise that she's on the wrong side of this issue as the evidence, and even her own sources, indicate.

Ahem, this is what Noam Chomsky had to say for the likes of ant-Covid vaxxers like you, Shell:

"Noam Chomsky says the unvaccinated should just remove themselves from society

MIT professor emeritus and political activist Noam Chomsky said he believes that while unvaccinated people have the right to refuse a COVID jab, they should “have the decency to isolate” from the community for the safety of others.

People who refuse to accept vaccines, I think the right response for them is not to force them to, but rather to insist that they be isolated. If people decide, ‘I am willing to be a danger to the community by refusing to vaccinate,’ they should say then, ‘Well, I also have the decency to isolate myself. I don’t want a vaccine, but I don’t have the right to run around harming people.’ That should be a convention,” said Chomsky.


...If it really reaches the point where they are severely endangering people, then of course you have to do something about it,” he added.


The 92-year-old scholar compared the refusal to get vaccinated to people who refuse to obey traffic rules."



Hopefully, Shell, you're following his advice. :roll
I can't remember that thread at the moment. Or, why It was worth a like. But, I'm pretty sure that it had nothing to do with Noam's non-expert opinion about the Covid-19 vaccines. Chomsky is certainly a mental giant in political science, social philosophy, modern sociology, and in American foreign policies. He is definitely one of my all-time modern-day social/political philosophers. His interview William F. Buckley Jr. is one of my favorite interviews. He not only is NOT afraid to speak his mind, but he can back-up anything he says. We do share a lot of similar ideas/beliefs. BUT NOT ALL!


But why on earth would you base an entire post on someone who is NOT an authority/expert on the subject? Although he is entitled to his own opinions, it is still worth almost as much of your entire knowledge of the subject.

What does amazes me is just how intellectually dishonest you are. Are you saying that if you refuse to be vaccinated, that it means that you must be a Conservative. Because studies have proven that Conservatives believe in Conspiracy theories? And of course there can't be any other explanations for these results! Right?? Now THAT really sounds like a conspiracy theory! Couldn't possibly mean that they just felt that they don't need to be vaccinated? Or, that they just want to keep, and exercise their right to choose?

What is so ironic about this vaccine issue, is how the government simply miscalculated the people's response to their Orwellian restrictions and punishments? Had the government simply pushed the voluntary aspects of choosing to being vaccinated or not, they would still be in power today. There would never have been 100's of thousands of Australians marching and protesting lockdowns, and the suspension of their personal liberties. People would have gladly taken this vaccine as a medical precaution. Especially, those who were the most at risk.

Vaccines are not new, and most people don't give a shit one way or another about taking them. But the minute you try to force/coerce, or threaten Australians with restrictions, fines, imprisonment, social isolation, and the loss of their jobs, then you better expect some pushback(except from sheeples). And, unless this virus is causing people to drop dead in the streets on contact, expect a lot of pushback.

"People who refuse to accept vaccines, I think the right response for them is not to force them to, but rather to insist that they be isolated.".

Of course this bigoted way of thinking has major moral and logical flaws. It falsely equivocates being vaccinated with actually having the disease. Secondly, it makes an unsupported assumption that all unvaccinated people could be infected(or will be) with Covid-19. And finally, what slippery slopes do you think isolating dissenting views/beliefs could lead to? Well this insecure, irrational, and elitist thinking tells me all I need to know about you.

I'm not sure if you misrepresent, and re-spin everything just to get a response. Or because you have real comprehension issues. In either case, can we just agree to disagree?
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
If Shell had read the abc article: https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2022-07-29/covid-19-three-myths-challenge-lies-ahead/101274980
then...
What are your responses in particular to Myth #1? That those that survive are now more likely to suffer poorer health outcomes like the paragraph:
"The risk of cardiovascular disease, for example, increased after one infection, but doubled in people who had two infections, and tripled in those who had been infected thrice.

The numbers translate into 50 extra cases of heart disease per 1,000 people who've had COVID-19 twice."

There's also myths #2 and #3.
The first thing that you must understand is, THAT NO ONE CHOOSES TO CATCH THE SARS-CoV-2 VIRUS!! Secondly, there are many other things that can increase your risk of cardiovascular diseases(dietary, environmental, chemical, stress, etc.), and other chronic diseases. Selectively picking(cherry-picking) only Covid-19 is just being intellectually dishonest.

Be that as it may, I don't care, or judge what your rationale is for being indefinitely vaccinated. It is NOT my arm or my body that this crap is going into. If this makes you feel safe and secure, go for it. The mortality rate just doesn't justify this level of response. IMHO

I agree with the other two myths.

I agree that being fully vaccinated, even with an infinite amount of vaccines and boosters, will NOT stop you from being infected, or being re-infected.

And, I also agree that there is no way that man can make variant-specific vaccines to protect us from all pathogens, antigens, and their variants.

And Shell's thoughts - that there are no side effects or long term negative effects of having covid. And if you died - it was from something else and not covid. Doesn't matter if covid exacerbated existing issues or cause damage - it wasn't covid's fault at all. You are weak and so evolution taking it cause, removed you from the gene pool.
Now you're back to just making shit up. If you want to believe that I think there are NO adverse effects from Covid-19(long or short term), I don't really care. Those adverse effects are listed. If you want to believe, that I think that everyone who died with Covid-19, only died from their other comorbidities, I don't care. This point was rendered academic by the State's media flunkies. But you can still look at the chronic comorbidities, and objectively decide for yourself. Again, none of this matters anymore. Even if you fell out of fucking plane at 20K feet, if what is left of you tests positive for Covid-19 antibodies, then you will be counted as dying from Covid-19. So ask yourself, if my 90yo grandma didn't have 4 serious life-threatening comorbidities, would she have died without having Covid-19? And then ask yourself, would she have dies even with having Covid-19?

Tell people what they want to hear, and they will believe anything you say!
 

Linus

Member
Shell doesn't know if she's coming or going, inconsistency seems to rule her universe. I thought you threw in the towel, Shell. Well, that's what you said anyway.

Shell writes:

"But why on earth would you base an entire post on someone who is NOT an authority/expert on the subject? Although he is entitled to his own opinions, it is still worth almost as much of your entire knowledge of the subject."

Given that you stated in your reams of waffle ,without being able to support your case against mRNA vaccines ( and I've told you ad nauseum why), that you don't believe in hand sanitiser, social distancing or masks, let alone vaccines, I thought someone of Chomsky's stature could make you think a little more carefully. He's more capable than you or I of understanding the information available.

Are you a viroligist, Shell? You don't even seem to understand the basic logical fallacies you committed throughout your manic and explosive keyboard diarrhea. You couldn't even understand that you were not even making your case against mRNA vaccination.

And it was pretty clear that you did not read all your own references through , especially where they contradicted your stance. Alas, I've been through this before, and true to form, you carry on like a broken record. Oblivious to anything that went before and now oblivious to the recent like you gave Mothra. It's like watching the movie 50 first dates.

Your nonsense comments showed me that your understanding isn't much to sing about. Like dismissing mRNA vaccines because you think traditional vaccines protect against variants, which was false and also irrelevant to proving anything against the use and efficacy of mRNA vaccines.

When shown what what you were saying was a croc, you eventually flitted across to questioning the use and efficacy of any vaccine, after throwing in all sorts of other irrelevances and half-baked ideas, which were refuted.

Your understanding on the subject,even when you threw out almost a dozen videos explaining the immune system, isn't daunting, it's laughable.OK, Ms Pot?

Shell writes:

What does amazes me is just how intellectually dishonest you are. Are you saying that if you refuse to be vaccinated, that it means that you must be a Conservative.

That's funny coming from you. And it shows you only glanced through what I was quoting with vacant eyeballs.

Yes, the survey did find a correlation between conservatives who did not trust science and their resistance to vaccinate. It did find that conservatives that did trust science had no such resistance.

So what did that article say about you? Do you need me to hold your hand while you connect the dots with your crayon? Focus on the science aspect.

Shell writes:

"What is so ironic about this vaccine issue, is how the government simply miscalculated the people's response to their Orwellian restrictions and punishments? Had the government simply pushed the voluntary aspects of choosing to being vaccinated or not, they would still be in power today. There would never have been 100's of thousands of Australians marching and protesting lockdowns, and the suspension of their personal liberties. People would have gladly taken this vaccine as a medical precaution. Especially, those who were the most at risk."

Well, do waffle on, Shell. Regardless, YOU wouldn't have vaccinated.I hope you stayed at home at least.

Shell writes:

"People who refuse to accept vaccines, I think the right response for them is not to force them to, but rather to insist that they be isolated.".

Of course this bigoted way of thinking has major moral and logical flaws. It falsely equivocates being vaccinated with actually having the disease. Secondly, it makes an unsupported assumption that all unvaccinated people could be infected(or will be) with Covid-19. And finally, what slippery slopes do you think isolating dissenting views/beliefs could lead to? Well this insecure, irrational, and elitist thinking tells me all I need to know about you.


1.What other hallucinations do you have, Shell? You're not even using the word "equivocates" properly. In fact, you're equivocating. I think you meant to use "equates" but bombastic you probably thought that equivocates sounds better. Thanks for the laugh.

Chomsky is saying what he means and means what he says. What moral and logical flaws exist in his statement? You do like making sounds but don't or can't explain your sounds.

Why is he being bigoted, Shell? Ohhhhh, he expressed an opinion you did not like. If he thought your way, he would be entitled to similarly call you a bigot.

2. You impute an assumption that's not there. Dabbling in a straw man, Shell? You would need to ask him what assumption he's making, Shell and not stuff him with your own.

He might have been thinking along the lines of this Princeton virologist:

“Unvaccinated people are acting as a reservoir from which the virus causing COVID-19 can keep jumping back into vaccinated people,” te Velthuis said. “It’s a perfect selection model for new variants, unfortunately.”


3. He, nor I , are isolating your dissent, Shell. Pages of your crap prove that. So, it doesn't tell you anything about me but does show your own insecurity in needing to pluck that accusation out of ...... thin air. What else do you want invent?

Finally, Shell comes to this conclusion:

"I'm not sure if you misrepresent, and re-spin everything just to get a response. Or because you have real comprehension issues. In either case, can we just agree to disagree?"

No, Shell, I've been showing all along the way that you've been talking crap and guess what? I've done the same here. Any spin or comprehension deficits belong to you and your projector. :roll
 
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Linus

Member
Shell now addresses Stunspore.

Shell writes:

"The first thing that you must understand is, THAT NO ONE CHOOSES TO CATCH THE SARS-CoV-2 VIRUS!! Secondly, there are many other things that can increase your risk of cardiovascular diseases(dietary, environmental, chemical, stress, etc.), and other chronic diseases. Selectively picking(cherry-picking) only Covid-19 is just being intellectually dishonest."

1.She doesn't feel embarrassment stating the bleeding obvious, in capitalised letters no less. Must make her feel smart.

2. But Shell likes forging ahead with the cringe-worthy. Well, duh, Shell, he's talking about, or rather the article he referred to, talks about what scientists have found regarding the effects of repeated infections of the virus.

No Cherry picking there. Do you even know how to use the term Cherry-picking? Apparently, not. There's no intellectual dishonesty going on, Shell. You're just being stupid.

Shell writes:

"Be that as it may, I don't care, or judge what your rationale is for being indefinitely vaccinated. It is NOT my arm or my body that this crap is going into. If this makes you feel safe and secure, go for it. The mortality rate just doesn't justify this level of response. IMHO"

Poor Stunspore doesn't know what he's gotten himself into.

That "crap", Shell, had reduced the numbers of people dying and swamping ICU's. The mortality rate(Shell is focusing on the small percentage or fraction to make it all sound trivial) translates into 6,418,378 deaths to date. This makes Shell very callous indeed. Some 30 million are still recovering and a decent number will suffer long covid and other problems from the covid viruses. Did you read with your vacant eyeballs what the virologist in the article provided by Stunspore said about repeated infection? Guess not, Shell thinks they're deliberately cherry-picking data.

Shell, doesn't give a shit. From what she's saying, she probably didn't even have the decency to isolate. She would have rather been a manure pile for viruses to mutate in and thereby get around the defenses of the vaccinated(Read the Princeton virologist reference before you bristle).

(Did you go a few rounds with shop proprietors and cops about your rights not to wear a mask when they were mandated, Shell. Did we see you on TV?:smirk)

It's people like Shell you can look to blame for the break-through variants. Tut, tut, Shell, before you take this statement in isolation, go back to the Princeton virologist I quoted.

Shell continues to give us her lofty, unqualified thoughts....

Shell writes:

"I agree that being fully vaccinated, even with an infinite amount of vaccines and boosters, will NOT stop you from being infected, or being re-infected."

You also disagree to wearing masks, self-isolating, using sanitiser , and social distancing and not walking around inviting viruses to up the ante in your unvaccinated body( again refer to the Princeton virologist). Professor Goodnow, in the article referred to by Stunspore, would employ those measures as evidenced in his final statement about donning a mask.

The virologist did not say don't use vaccines though, he did talk about the problem of keeping up with the rate of variation and that specific antigen vaccines weren't the answer[ meaning to stopping this virus with its capacity to vary altogether from infecting us and making us ill or worse].

From Shells line of argumentation, she's content to leave everything to evolution and let millions upon millions die or suffer from Covid rather than ameliorating this with vaccines, albeit specific, short-term and in need of updating.

Shell writes:

And, I also agree that there is no way that man can make variant-specific vaccines to protect us from all pathogens, antigens, and their variants.

Well, duh, Shell, if viruses keep mutating, but so does the flu virus and we keep updating the vaccine , regardless of your blase attitude. People, scientists and governments realise the benefits of doing this. Given your preferred way of handling things, the medical system would be swamped in no time.

On that, Stunspore's virologist hasn't given up hope on finding a generalised vaccine that will protect against variants. You, on the otherhand, don't care if millions die or suffer. You'd leave it all to evolution, which is a hell of a lot slower than updating specific antigen vaccines.


Now poor Stunspore cops Shell's double talk and broken record in shrill mode.

Shell writes in response to Stunspore:

Now you're back to just making shit up. If you want to believe that I think there are NO adverse effects from Covid-19(long or short term), I don't really care. Those adverse effects are listed. If you want to believe, that I think that everyone who died with Covid-19, only died from their other comorbidities, I don't care. This point was rendered academic by the State's media flunkies. But you can still look at the chronic comorbidities, and objectively decide for yourself. Again, none of this matters anymore. Even if you fell out of fucking plane at 20K feet, if what is left of you tests positive for Covid-19 antibodies, then you will be counted as dying from Covid-19. So ask yourself, if my 90yo grandma didn't have 4 serious life-threatening comorbidities, would she have died without having Covid-19? And then ask yourself, would she have dies even with having Covid-19?


Well, Shell, go back to the experts in the field that would disagree with and contradict your lay opinion about counting. This is from your reference( I bet you hate even finding it now. :D)


"Despite misgivings from some quarters, most experts believe that COVID-19 deaths are not being overcounted. Indeed, many think that undercounting is more likely, particularly in the early months of the pandemic.

“Early on, there was not widespread testing, so we underestimated the deaths. Now, the death data are more reliable. There may be some plus or minus, but death data are pretty accurate.”
– Dr. William Schaffner
Dr. Arturo Casadevall, a distinguished professor and chair of molecular microbiology and immunology at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, echoed this view.

“My view is that the current number of COVID-19 deaths is an undercounting simply because those deaths reflect the ones we know about, and not every death caused by this disease was recorded or diagnosed as such,” he told MNT.

Newer studies suggest that the real death toll from the pandemic could be three times higher than the officially reported figures"



Oh, and Shell, not only people with comorbidities die from Covid. And people with comorbidities who "died with covid" could have lived a lot longer without the advent of covid on their normal medications.
 
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Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Dr. Arturo Casadevall, a distinguished professor and chair of molecular microbiology and immunology at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, echoed this view.

“My view is that the current number of COVID-19 deaths is an undercounting simply because those deaths reflect the ones we know about, and not every death caused by this disease was recorded or diagnosed as such,” he told MNT.

Newer studies suggest that the real death toll from the pandemic could be three times higher than the officially reported figures"
He's making the classic argument from ignorance, by implying that there may be deaths from Covid-19 that we don't know about. Or hasn't been reported. This may, or may not be true. It may or may not be true that every death was caused directly from Covid-19. It also may or may NOT be true that the total Covid-19 deaths reflect only the ones we know about. Science is NOT about explaining what we don't know! But, what we DO KNOW FOR A FACT(I provided two links), is that ALL state governments are required to report ALL patients dying WITH any SARS-CoV-2 viral antibodies in their body, as dying directly FROM Covid-19. Any other chronic, gross, or severe comorbidities are irrelevant as a primary cause. And, are only listed on the death certificate under other/secondary causes. This is wrong, and you know it. I guess no matter how many times I repeat this important fact, you will still just keep ignoring it!

If a person finds out that he's positive for Covid-19, and puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger. Should he be listed as dying FROM Covid-19?? Or, was the bullet to the brain only aggravated by Covid-19? Can you see just how down this sounds? No amount of your spewing appeals to authorities, or invoking speculative suppositions is going to change how deceptive/dishonest this directive is. It clearly inflates the number of deaths attributed to this disease. But it also inflates the mortality rate, increases media ratings, fuels more fear mongering, and increases the level of social anxiety. The perfect recipe for controlling how the masses think.

Well, Shell, go back to the experts in the field that would disagree with and contradict your lay opinion about counting. This is from your reference( I bet you hate even finding it now. :D)


"Despite misgivings from some quarters, most experts believe that COVID-19 deaths are not being overcounted. Indeed, many think that undercounting is more likely, particularly in the early months of the pandemic.
More huffing and bluffing again! Why do you keep trying to gaslight me? Why do you always preference your comments with insults, arrogance, and silly belittling comments? Are you really this insecure?? If you say that "..most experts believe..", than this also means that some experts DON'T believe, right? So now we're just talking about WHICH experts we want to believe, right? I'll simply stick to the facts, data, science, and a little basic commonsense. Otherwise, I'm just "cherry picking" only for the experts that will support my own confirmation bias.

Shell writes:

And, I also agree that there is no way that man can make variant-specific vaccines to protect us from all pathogens, antigens, and their variants.

Well, duh, Shell, if viruses keep mutating, but so does the flu virus and we keep updating the vaccine , regardless of your blase attitude. People, scientists and governments realise the benefits of doing this. Given your preferred way of handling things, the medical system would be swamped in no time.

On that, Stunspore's virologist hasn't given up hope on finding a generalised vaccine that will protect against variants. You, on the otherhand, don't care if millions die or suffer. You'd leave it all to evolution, which is a hell of a lot slower than updating specific antigen vaccines.
Every living life form on the planet mutates Linus. Are you saying that because I believe that people should have the right to choose what goes into their body, that this means that I don't care if millions of people die or suffer(equivocation fallacy)? And, that the SARS-CoV-2 virus's genome is the same as the influenza virus's genome(one is segmented the other isn't)? They are NOT the same! And the antibodies we want in our bodies is NOT the vaccine-induced specific antibodies. We want more non-specific innate antibodies. Evolution takes millions of years of small changes over time. Were you really comparing the rate of evolution to the rate of viral mutations? In reality the duration before the body mounts a natural full immune response to any pathogen, is between 1-3 days. You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you??

Poor Stunspore doesn't know what he's gotten himself into.

That "crap", Shell, had reduced the numbers of people dying and swamping ICU's. The mortality rate(Shell is focusing on the small percentage or fraction to make it all sound trivial) translates into 6,418,378 deaths to date. This makes Shell very callous indeed. Some 30 million are still recovering and a decent number will suffer long covid and other problems from the covid viruses. Did you read with your vacant eyeballs what the virologist in the article provided by Stunspore said about repeated infection? Guess not, Shell thinks they're deliberately cherry-picking data.

Shell, doesn't give a shit. From what she's saying, she probably didn't even have the decency to isolate. She would have rather been a manure pile for viruses to mutate in and thereby get around the defenses of the vaccinated(Read the Princeton virologist reference before you bristle).

(Did you go a few rounds with shop proprietors and cops about your rights not to wear a mask when they were mandated, Shell. Did we see you on TV?:smirk)

It's people like Shell you can look to blame for the break-through variants. Tut, tut, Shell, before you take this statement in isolation, go back to the Princeton virologist I quoted.
Still insulting, bluffing, misrepresenting data, and stroking your own ego! You must be getting tired of always avoiding the truth, and spewing out half-truths. Let's just dismiss the importance of our civil liberties. Or, any of the safeguards that protect them. Submissive passive-aggressive people like you, will rationalize anything that their masters do. They are the ones who really hate people. And enjoy their anxieties and suffering that their masters cause. They are the true sycophants.

Any person with more than 2 working brain cells would agree that taking any vaccine should be voluntary. So these people will gaslight, shame, demeaning, lie, misrepresent, label, or discriminate against anyone who thinks differently. Even to the point of isolating, or just locking dissenters up. And, then even rationalize that it is their own fault for questioning the majority's beliefs. What country is this, again?? You are a real sad misguided piece of work, to make such fascist statements. You are as dangerously delusional as any religious extremist!

Despite your ignorance-based fanaticism, I have paid fines, been detained, heckled and shouted at. Along with thousands of my other Australians who have a brain, and a backbone. We are the true Australians who care more about our civil liberties, than a flu bug less lethal than the fucking measles(another fact you keep ignoring). And, if your masters try to suspend our freedoms again, we will again remove them from office. If you want to put this shit into your body indefinitely, then that is your right. But don't you, or anyone else dare force/coerce me to do the same.

1.She doesn't feel embarrassment stating the bleeding obvious, in capitalised letters no less. Must make her feel smart.
That's because some idiots try and make arguments, that imply/assume that people actually CHOOSE to become infected. Or, that the unvaccinated WILL inevitably become infected. Or that multiple vaccinations will protect/prevent against being re-infected. But you're correct, IT IS BLOODY OBVIOUS!

2. But Shell likes forging ahead with the cringe-worthy. Well, duh, Shell, he's talking about, or rather the article he referred to, talks about what scientists have found regarding the effects of repeated infections of the virus.

No Cherry picking there. Do you even know how to use the term Cherry-picking? Apparently, not. There's no intellectual dishonesty going on, Shell. You're just being stupid.
The fact that ALL OTHER CAUSES FOR THE CHRONIC ILLNESSES MENTIONED ARE NOT MENTIONED, EXCEPT FOR COVID-19, IT IS CHERRY-PICKING BY OMISSION! So, other than the insults and silly accusations, I have no idea what this gibberish even means. Do you mean the talks where scientist have concluded, that repeated Covid-19 infections was the direct cause for aggravating any and all of the other serious comorbidities mentioned? Sorry, must have missed that!!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
That's funny coming from you. And it shows you only glanced through what I was quoting with vacant eyeballs.

Yes, the survey did find a correlation between conservatives who did not trust science and their resistance to vaccinate. It did find that conservatives that did trust science had no such resistance.

So what did that article say about you? Do you need me to hold your hand while you connect the dots with your crayon? Focus on the science aspect.
YES! Please hold my hands, and use as many crayons as you want. What is the scientific correlation pathway, that explains why Conservatives are more likely NOT to trust science, or DON'T want to be vaccinated? Is the reason for their apprehension, organic, chemical, social, or ideologic?

And tell me why should I listen to anyone who thinks that it is morally acceptable to isolate, or lockup people who do not comply with what the majority believes? I am surprised that Noam would think so radical. But, at 92, I guess he can be forgiven.

I'm afraid the rest of your post is just more of the same lies, misrepresentations, half-truths, unsupported accusations, and insults. I really don't want to continue jumping through your strawman hoops. Or, to keep wading through this level of immaturity. Eventually, some of this shit is going to stick to me. This is exactly why I threw in the towel. So, let me make this simple

Take as many vaccines, boosters, or anything your experts tell you to do. This is your right. And, I will defend this right with my life. But unless I'm a God, I will never force/coerce my beliefs onto anyone else. I've posited my rationale, and the factual evidence to support my reasoning. There is no way that I would stick this crap into my body. And, unless you can point out why 98% of unvaccinated people have somehow survived this lethal virus, I NEVER WILL!

So, for the last time can't we simply agree to disagree? Good luck! And, I certainly hope that your right!!
 

Linus

Member
Shell, I don't want to cause you any distress.

However, you're back in broken record mode. Frankly, I'm sick to the back teeth of this merry-go-round.

To you everyone is lying. The government is lying, the medicos are lying, the experts in the field are lying. And you alone know better. Does that tell you anything?

I just want to address this one point of yours: Cherry-picking by omission. When you cherry pick you are choosing evidence that supports what you are claiming and ignoring evidence that contradicts what you are claiming. It's a deception.

The virologist is neither choosing or ignoring evidence to prove any claim. He is just stating what repeated exposure to Covid does. To say he's omitting or ignoring other causal agencies for disease is ridiculous here. It's irrelevant.

Goodnow states:

"The risk of cardiovascular disease, for example, increased after one infection, but doubled in people who had two infections, and tripled in those who had been infected thrice.

The numbers translate into 50 extra cases of heart disease per 1,000 people who've had COVID-19 twice.

Unfortunately, vaccination didn't seem to help: the cumulative risk of heart disease was indistinguishable when the researchers split people who'd received two or more COVID-19 jabs and those who hadn't been vaccinated at all.

The researchers found similar cumulative risks with each reinfection for pulmonary disease, clotting and blood disorders, neurological disease, mental health problems, kidney disease, musculoskeletal disease, fatigue, and so on."

You're boxing at shadows with this contrived " Cherry picking by omission".

No cherry-picking by omission.

I do want to spend my time on this forum getting bogged down in one topic.

Shell, it seems that you're playing silly buggers.

Anyway, here's something that might assuage you...

Paxlovid is a game-changer in our fight against BA.5. Doc prescribed it to me when I was COVID positive.
The drug reduces risk of hospitalization and death by about 90% — and you can access these pills for free at tens of thousands of local drug stores around the country.
— President Biden (@POTUS) July 28, 2022
It's a prescription medication, so I'm not sure whether you'd accept taking it if you ever got Covid. After all, your entire critique of mRNA vaccines could easily be adapted to this drug. And if it can, what are you really doing? No drug or vaccine in your critique would be acceptable. You'd just being playing ducks and drakes as it tickled your fancy.

Oh, do we know the long term effects? Oh, is it ethical to be taking something like this into your body ? Oh, it's a a scheduled poison. Oh, why don't they fully disclose the ingredients, hmm, raises a red flag. Oh, let evolution take care of it.. Why can't I just go down the chemist and get something without a prescription?... red flag there....And so on.

Shell, vaccines and drugs are tested beforehand for efficacy and safety and acceptable risk. They go through clinical trials. They get approved by regulatory authorities. They save people lives, ameliorate suffering, cure or prevent harmful disease .No one would spend the millions or billions of dollars to develop these things if they had no intellectual property rights. Every Tom Dick and Harry would be making them and the companies that developed them would not recoup their R& D.

You are set an impossible bar to dismiss anything you don't happen to fancy and invent flimsy rationalisations. And what do you do when they get subject to scrutiny and attacked? You bleat you're sheeple being manipulated by lying media and lying government. That smacks of conspiratorial nonsense.

But, hey, you know better and I don't think you do. Yes, we should just leave this discussion here.

And I will take my vaccines and medications which have been tested for their efficacy and safety in ameliorating, curing or preventing disease. Likewise, you're free to come down with Covid or any other disease and not take any vaccine or drug that could ameliorate, cure or prevent it.

Cheers.
 
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Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Goodnow states:

"The risk of cardiovascular disease, for example, increased after one infection, but doubled in people who had two infections, and tripled in those who had been infected thrice.

The numbers translate into 50 extra cases of heart disease per 1,000 people who've had COVID-19 twice.
So do we just assume that people WILL have multiple infections? This sounds more like probabilities and odds to me. Unless you're trying to scare people into continuing to take vaccines and boosters indefinitely, then why are you telling them about their risk of cardiovascular diseases? They still can't prevent being infected by any virus anyway. So, what is the point of telling people this? We can provide the biochemical pathway that would explain why Covid-19 vaccines can directly cause endo and pericarditis. Should we to keep telling people this fact?

There also may have been a 5% statistical increase in cardiovascular disease cases, but what evidence directly suggest that it is directly caused by Covid-19 exclusively? And, what other variables, chronic illnesses, medications, or other things that could also effect this risk factor? Again, you see only what you want to see. Science requires a bit more objectivity.

To you everyone is lying. The government is lying, the medicos are lying, the experts in the field are lying. And you alone know better. Does that tell you anything?

I just want to address this one point of yours: Cherry-picking by omission. When you cherry pick you are choosing evidence that supports what you are claiming and ignoring evidence that contradicts what you are claiming. It's a deception.
Your first paragraph is the classic argument from incredulity. That is where you make outlandish/condescending statements to belittle the other person's argument. It is what I call, "A SAD AND DESPERATE BLUFF. Everyone doesn't lie, the government doesn't always lie, experts don't always lie(including politicians), and I certainly don't claim to know more than the experts. Just more lies! But it does tell me something about you. That you are terrified of the truth, or being wrong!

Tell me genius, are all the doctors, nurses, researchers, science teachers, scientists, etc., who have lost their jobs, because they refused to be vaccinated, also ignorant of what vaccines are? Do they all know more than the experts? Are they all antivaxxers and vaccine illiterates? Or, are you claiming that EVERY medicos, healthcare worker, virologist/immunologist, science researcher, teacher, and all politicians, ARE ALL FULLY VACCINATED?? Oh, that's right, you never say anything directly. You simply imply/insinuate everything indirectly.

Simply positing the definition of "cherry-picking" is not evidence of you NOT "cherry-picking". There are many variable that can contribute to a "cumulative risk" of cardiovascular disease(diet, medication, general health, chronic illnesses, stress, genetic, age, sex, climate, environment, etc.). Were any of these variables mentioned or included in this study?? Therefore, YES! Claiming Covid-19 as the only variable is "cherry-picking" by omitting all other variables that can contribute to a "cumulative risk".

Shell, vaccines and drugs are tested beforehand for efficacy and safety and acceptable risk. They go through clinical trials. They get approved by regulatory authorities. They save people lives, ameliorate suffering, cure or prevent harmful disease .No one would spend the millions or billions of dollars to develop these things if they had no intellectual property rights. Every Tom Dick and Harry would be making them and the companies that developed them would not recoup their R& D.
Are you really this naïve and ignorant? Do you really think that the CDC, FDA, or AMA are full of experts who know it all? Because of the sheer volume, many dangerous drugs do fall through the cracks. It took 60 years for the FDA to realize just how dangerous "Thalidomide" was to the public. Remember, Laetrile was also approved by the FDA, before it was banned. Here are 35 more FDA-approved drugs that were approved and later removed. Like I've said before, ignorance is bliss. So have a coke, a drink, and a smoke. Because they are all FDA approved!


It's a prescription medication, so I'm not sure whether you'd accept taking it if you ever got Covid. After all, your entire critique of mRNA vaccines could easily be adapted to this drug. And if it can, what are you really doing? No drug or vaccine in your critique would be acceptable. You'd just being playing ducks and drakes as it tickled your fancy.
If on the rare chance that I was infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, and none of the chemists medications helped to reduced my symptoms, I WOULD GLADLY TAKE ANY OF THE ANTI-VIRAL MEDICATIONS ON THE MARKET NOW!! Why wouldn't I?

And I will take my vaccines and medications which have been tested for their efficacy and safety in ameliorating, curing or preventing disease. Likewise, you're free to come down with Covid or any other disease and not take any vaccine or drug that could ameliorate, cure or prevent it.

Cheers.
And from the rest of us in the human gene pool, THANK YOU! We're going to have to cull the world population eventually. This is as good a place to start as any.
 

Linus

Member
Here I was trying to be conciliatory and I should have known better.

First Shell, says, "Anyway, I'm throwing in the towel.'

{And she puled incessantly about being gaslighted whilst doing much the same. It was water of my back. :poketongue)

then she sneaks back in, and then after another couple of rounds she says

So, for the last time can't we simply agree to disagree? Good luck! And, I certainly hope that your right!!"

Ok, fine I think. The old crone has finally shuffled off this topic..... But no, she thought she'd sneak back in and have one last venomous dig. :smirk

Never take the word of an antivaxxer troll.

So what does the old harridan spit? Let's start at the end.

Shell says breaking out into a capitalised shrill:

"If on the rare chance that I was infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, and none of the chemists medications helped to reduced my symptoms, I WOULD GLADLY TAKE ANY OF THE ANTI-VIRAL MEDICATIONS ON THE MARKET NOW!! Why wouldn't I?"

Here we go again. Those vacant eyeballs in those sunken sockets look frightening. But watch out when she swings her brolly. She didn't understand the very words that she was quoting and swinging at.

To form she forgot her lines of argumentation throughout her deluded attempt to convince everyone not to take mRNA vaccines. She forgets that when she goes down to the chemist, she'd probably taking formulations, even over the counter ones, that have no full disclosure of their ingredients ( not that she'd understand what was already on the bottle unless she was a chemist or how anything she was taking exactly worked unless she was a doctor or other qualified person), and she would not know of long term effects, blah blah.All red flags for Shell, all of which she threw up to dissuade people from taking not only mRNA vaccines but then it became any vaccine or drugs the more she crapped on.

Shell, deary, you're ignoring your "critique" against mRNA vaccines and whatever else your demented brain had in its sites. If you were consistent you'd use the same criteria for Paxlovid and any other medication.

But you only pick and choose what you want to apply them too. In other words your criteria are worthless. Something else is driving you. The criteria you arraigned were just rationalisations. You just choose to apply them as it suits.

Why wouldn't you take an anti-viral, you ask? To be consistent with your argument, you wouldn't .

But the duplicitous, old harpy now tells us in effect she would amble into a chemist and enter a doctor's office with bonnet in hand soliciting whatever she could to relieve her of her ills, after telling everyone they shouldn't.

So what you've been carrying on for pages wasn't worth a pinch of shit to you. And it wasn't worth a pinch to anyone else except your own gaggle of deluded crackpots..


After I said:

"And I will take my vaccines and medications which have been tested for their efficacy and safety in ameliorating, curing or preventing disease. Likewise, you're free to come down with Covid or any other disease and not take any vaccine or drug that could ameliorate, cure or prevent it."

Shell spat:

"And from the rest of us in the human gene pool, THANK YOU! We're going to have to cull the world population eventually. This is as good a place to start as any."


So, if I or anyone else take vaccines and medications that demonstrably help, that have gone through rigorous procedures and other hurdles and have demonstrable efficacy,Shell ironically thinks we're leaving the gene pool. Yet if she took her own advice, the old crone would have shuffled off a long time ago and we'd have been saved from reams of her keyboard diarrhea.


Shell, you don't even know how to correctly apply cliche insults.:poketongue


Let's look at some other stuff her tortured brain convulses with:

"Your first paragraph is the classic argument from incredulity. That is where you make outlandish/condescending statements to belittle the other person's argument. It is what I call, "A SAD AND DESPERATE BLUFF. Everyone doesn't lie, the government doesn't always lie, experts don't always lie(including politicians), and I certainly don't claim to know more than the experts. Just more lies! But it does tell me something about you. That you are terrified of the truth, or being wrong!"

Shell, dear, in that case, you shouldn't take anything. On what basis would you take any drug? Your personal ignorant intuitions? Why would you take Paxlovid? It's come through the same process you've denounced, "genius". What's more dangerous the scientific and regulatory process or your demented intuitions? I suspect worse would come from your vacuous intuitions.

Anyone taking your advice to heart would have a higher probability of exiting the gene pool.

Are you that far gone? Don't answer, it's rhetorical. You are that far gone but nice to see that you're struggling to come to grips with logical fallacies and how to apply them.



"Tell me genius, are all the doctors, nurses, researchers, science teachers, scientists, etc., who have lost their jobs, because they refused to be vaccinated, also ignorant of what vaccines are? Do they all know more than the experts? Are they all antivaxxers and vaccine illiterates? Or, are you claiming that EVERY medicos, healthcare worker, virologist/immunologist, science researcher, teacher, and all politicians, ARE ALL FULLY VACCINATED??"

I made no such claims but you have a penchant of inventing stuff to knock down. You love playing with your straw dolls. In any case, you're being irrelevant again and committing the fallacy of false dilemma. That is, you're proposing the existence of only two possible alternatives when other options exist.

Anyway, your just blowing hot air and nothing more.

Ok, I'm happy to accept that anyone in the professions you listed who refused to be vaxxed and lost their jobs knew what vaccines are. So what?

No one is positing that they are all antivaxxers and vaccine illiterates outside of yourself.But they're all human and some fell for antivaxxer fear mongering.

No, I'm not claiming they are all fully vaccinated. I suspect a vast majority here in Australia are given the high vaccination percentage of the population.

So what are you trying to prove here? Nothing by the looks of it other than making it look like your saying something when you're not. And you prattle on about dishonesty.


God, it's more of the same from Shell. Hot air and more hot air.

Shell writes:

"So do we just assume that people WILL have multiple infections? This sounds more like probabilities and odds to me. Unless you're trying to scare people into continuing to take vaccines and boosters indefinitely, then why are you telling them about their risk of cardiovascular diseases? They still can't prevent being infected by any virus anyway. So, what is the point of telling people this? We can provide the biochemical pathway that would explain why Covid-19 vaccines can directly cause endo and pericarditis. Should we to keep telling people this fact??

No, Goodnow is just stating what will happen if people get multiple infections based on analysis of the data researchers have.

It's not about scaring, it's fact. How anyone reacts to this information is their business.

No, people can protect themselves from infection through mass vaccinations, social distancing, hand sanitisers and masks. I've already directed you to studies right at the beginning of this tete-a-tete we're having.


Would you rather keep people ignorant of all information relevant to Covid?

Ok, another nothing burger from Shell and a waste of time and space.


Oh, I missed this one from Shell:

Shell writes:

"I have paid fines, been detained, heckled and shouted at. Along with thousands of my other Australians who have a brain, and a backbone. We are the true Australians who care more about our civil liberties, than a flu bug less lethal than the fucking measles(another fact you keep ignoring). And, if your masters try to suspend our freedoms again, we will again remove them from office. If you want to put this shit into your body indefinitely, then that is your right. But don't you, or anyone else dare force/coerce me to do the same.

Covid is more virulent than a flu. You're talking out of your backside.

"On the whole, COVID-19 is much more deadly than the flu, and more likely to result in severe illness and hospitalization. "Compared to the 0.01% case fatality rate for influenza, the case fatality rate for COVID-19 is 0.2%," says Dr. Barros. "


Covid is , according to the above, 20 times more virulent than the flu. We use annual vaccines to reduce the lives lost to flu and we recognise the gravity of those deaths. Yet you dismiss flu and even deadlier covid as insignificant and not worth protecting people against. Tell that to the families of the millions who lost their lives.

Were you amongst the brainless and spineless idiots who sent threatening emails and faxes to GPs carrying on about Nuremberg conventions? Warning them of legal action if they vaccinated people? And who weren't brave enough to provide their email or fax addresses or identify themselves in any way?

Bravo, Shell, for being intrepid in facing fines,. being heckled , shouted out and detained ( By who? Untrue Australians? God, you're an idiot).Yet you pule about a little online gaslighting.

Hey, I'm glad you got fined, heckled and detained. You're foolish and a danger to society. Your stupidity would kill people and swamp the medical system. I'll let others conclude how true an Australian you really are.


I'll end off with this now classical type of Shell spray:

Shell says:

Are you really this naïve and ignorant? Do you really think that the CDC, FDA, or AMA are full of experts who know it all? Because of the sheer volume, many dangerous drugs do fall through the cracks. It took 60 years for the FDA to realize just how dangerous "Thalidomide" was to the public. Remember, Laetrile was also approved by the FDA, before it was banned. Here are 35 more FDA-approved drugs that were approved and later removed. Like I've said before, ignorance is bliss. So have a coke, a drink, and a smoke. Because they are all FDA approved!

Science is a self-correcting process.The regulatory authorities correct themselves. You've pointed out some terrible errors and their correction thereof but this was against the vast majority of correct calls. ( Did you just commit your own "cherry picking by omission", Shell? :poketongue) No system is perfect but what is in place is better than what you have to offer.

Again, Shell, dear, you shouldn't take anything. On what basis would you take any drug? Your personal, ignorant intuitions? Why would you take Paxlovid? It's come through the same process you've denounced, "genius". What's more dangerous? The scientific and regulatory process or your demented intuitions? I suspect worse would come from your intuitions.

( So, Shell, haven't you got your cats to go and play with?)
 
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Linus

Member

This could befall Shell in the not too distant future,

Shelve your arrogance, Shell. Get vaccinated.

Also look at the graphs here and see how getting all your shots results in far less hospitalisations for the FULLY vaccinated in NSW. The pattern would be similar everywhere.



And if we need periodic boosters, I suggest we all have them.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Here I was trying to be conciliatory and I should have known better.

First Shell, says, "Anyway, I'm throwing in the towel.'

{And she puled incessantly about being gaslighted whilst doing much the same. It was water of my back. :poketongue)

then she sneaks back in, and then after another couple of rounds she says

So, for the last time can't we simply agree to disagree? Good luck! And, I certainly hope that your right!!"

Ok, fine I think. The old crone has finally shuffled off this topic..... But no, she thought she'd sneak back in and have one last venomous dig. :smirk

Never take the word of an antivaxxer troll.

So what does the old harridan spit? Let's start at the end.
Clearly, I must be a true insecure masochist. I've highlighted all of the insults in your posts. I really don't know how I could possibly "sneak" back into a public forum! Or, why you would avoid the "reply", so I could be notified whenever you "sneak" your posts onto this thread!!

I threw in the towel after reading through 5 of your posts(#56-#60), full of nothing but demeaning, insulting, belittling, fallacious, and personally denigrating rhetoric. All design to deflate, deflect, avoid, misrepresent, and ridicule the importance of any facts or logic I deposit. So why should I continue to keep feeding your delusional ego and closed mind?? In the end it is still your choice and your business, NOT MINE!

Even after I threw in the towel, instead of posting a "no worries, cheers post", you posted another diatribe of more insults and demeaning rhetoric. Designed to provoke me and feed your fragile ego starving for attention. You even continued to insult and belittle me by your condescension, and preferencing every statements with, "Shell believes..", Shell thinks.., Shell says..", and "Shell is...", etc..

Even when I tried to ignore you, you ridiculed me through another poster(#81). When I posted again, which include that I wanted to agree to disagree, you posted 2 more posts of more of your same method of discourse. That is, to make ad hoc personal insults throughout the entire post. All, just to avoid/misrepresent/distort/ignore/dismiss any points that I raise. Clearly your ego, and insecurity couldn't just let me walk away. So, okay, I'll be your "huckleberry"! I'll give it a go!

At least "Future The Left Want" called me a "fucking idiot", and an "Ignorant cunt", before even engaging with me. So he's at least more honest than you'll ever be. You clearly do not argue to find the truth. You only argue for your ego to go the distance.

Clearly you don't want me to go. Since I have a very long attention span, I now have an overwhelming need to wade through all your insulting editorials and rhetoric, all of your insecure self-serving assumptions, and all the misrepresented bullshit that comes out of your mouth.

Oh, and because this is an open forum! So I can change my mind for any reason I want.

Shell says breaking out into a capitalised shrill:

"If on the rare chance that I was infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, and none of the chemists medications helped to reduced my symptoms, I WOULD GLADLY TAKE ANY OF THE ANTI-VIRAL MEDICATIONS ON THE MARKET NOW!! Why wouldn't I?"

Here we go again. Those vacant eyeballs in those sunken sockets look frightening. But watch out when she swings her brolly. She didn't understand the very words that she was quoting and swinging at.

To form she forgot her lines of argumentation throughout her deluded attempt to convince everyone not to take mRNA vaccines. She forgets that when she goes down to the chemist, she'd probably taking formulations, even over the counter ones, that have no full disclosure of their ingredients ( not that she'd understand what was already on the bottle unless she was a chemist or how anything she was taking exactly worked unless she was a doctor or other qualified person), and she would not know of long term effects, blah blah.All red flags for Shell, all of which she threw up to dissuade people from taking not only mRNA vaccines but then it became any vaccine or drugs the more she crapped on. ONE LIE AFTER ANOTHER!

Shell, deary, you're ignoring your "critique" against mRNA vaccines and whatever else your demented brain had in its sites
. If you were consistent you'd use the same criteria for Paxlovid and any other medication.

But you only pick and choose what you want to apply them too. In other words your criteria are worthless. Something else is driving you. The criteria you arraigned were just rationalisations. You just choose to apply them as it suits.

Why wouldn't you take an anti-viral, you ask? To be consistent with your argument, you wouldn't .

But the duplicitous, old harpy now tells us in effect she would amble into a chemist and enter a doctor's office with bonnet in hand soliciting whatever she could to relieve her of her ills, after telling everyone they shouldn't.

So what you've been carrying on for pages wasn't worth a pinch of shit to you. And it wasn't worth a pinch to anyone else except your own gaggle of deluded crackpots..
As you can see, once you remove all of the lies, misrepresentations, insults, and dumbass accusations, there's NOT much left. This only gives the APPEARANCE of truth. But it's not! It simply HIDES the truth.

Once you wade through all the pretentious bullshit, fake arrogance, and made-up distractions, you sometimes can forget exactly what actually was said. Even though I said that I would gladly take an anti-viral medication, if I were to be infected, it was ignored and restated differently. But to answer your question. WHY THE FUCK WOULD I PUT ANY PROTEASE INHIBITOR DRUG(USED FOR HIV) IN MY BODY, WHEN I DON'T EVEN HAVE THE FUCKING DISEASE?? This protease inhibitor can interact with all kinds of medications, used for other serious/chronic) illnesses(heart meds, blood thinners, diabetes, anti-rejection, etc.) you moron! So, is it your stupid logic, that we should all just take every drug available, for every possible disease, just in case we actually get the disease? Good luck with that logic, troll! Go take some high-blood pressure tablets, just in case you develop high blood pressure!


Of course, this is off the back of spinning another web of bullshit. That all drugs that are tested, trialed, and approved by the FDA, CDC, AMA, and the TGA(in Australia), should always be trusted as good, safe, and effective. We should all blindly trust science, without question! But the truth is, that MANY DRUGS WERE LATER FOUND TO BE INEFFECTIVE AND DSANGEROUS, AND WERE EVENTUALLY RECALLED(links provided).

So, if I or anyone else take vaccines and medications that demonstrably help, that have gone through rigorous procedures and other hurdles and have demonstrable efficacy,Shell ironically thinks we're leaving the gene pool. Yet if she took her own advice, the old crone would have shuffled off a long time ago and we'd have been saved from reams of her keyboard diarrhea.


Shell, you don't even know how to correctly apply cliche insults
.:poketongue

Let's look at some other stuff her tortured brain convulses with:
Again, wading through all the insults and bluffs, it's hard to find what to respond to. If you're trying to imply, that I think that if people use this vaccine that they will be leaving the gene pool, then again just more half-truths and lies. The statement was conditional, before you took it out of context.

So let me make this clearer for those who find it hard to comprehend the obvious. If someone is willing to indefinitely stick anything into their body on trust alone, then that is certainly their right to do so. But if someone tries to force/coerce me to do the same, then the red flags come up. So, you do you, and I'll do me. I draw the line on this level of governmental intrusion. But my opinions should have no effect on you. Enjoy your indefinite fixes. If you can't see where this slippery slope, and the possible abuses this could lead to, then you deserve everything you get.

Although I have no idea how to correctly apply cliché insults, I am more than certain that people like you are the true experts. You must be truly proud of this forte, right? Lets move on.

Shell, dear, in that case, you shouldn't take anything. On what basis would you take any drug? Your personal ignorant intuitions? Why would you take Paxlovid? It's come through the same process you've denounced, "genius". What's more dangerous the scientific and regulatory process or your demented intuitions? I suspect worse would come from your vacuous intuitions.

Anyone taking your advice to heart would have a higher probability of exiting the gene pool.

Are you that far gone
? Don't answer, it's rhetorical. You are that far gone but nice to see that you're struggling to come to grips with logical fallacies and how to apply them.
More arrogance and egoism, and addressing nothing. Just ignored the paragraph and moved the goal post, by claiming that on some make-believe basis, I should not take any drugs at all(another straw man was created). I'm not sure what these ambiguous comments to trying to imply(other than just how shallow your depth of knowledge really is), but I'll give it a go.

I would take a decongestant for a runny nose, BECAUSE IT WORKS! I would take an aspirin for a fever, BECAUSE IT WORKS! I would take an antihistamine for an allergy, BECAUSE IT WORKS! I would take a rehydrate for diarrhea, BECAUSE IT WORKS! I would take Panadol for pain, BECAUSE IT WORKS! I would take calcium channel blockers for hypertension, BECAUSE IT WORKS! And I would take a cold and flu medication for colds and flus, BECAUSE THEY WORK! And, even if I didn't know exactly why/how these meds work, it doesn't change the fact that THEY STILL FUCKING WORK!!

I made no such claims but you have a penchant of inventing stuff to knock down. You love playing with your straw dolls. In any case, you're being irrelevant again and committing the fallacy of false dilemma. That is, you're proposing the existence of only two possible alternatives when other options exist.

Anyway, your just blowing hot air and nothing more.

Ok, I'm happy to accept that anyone in the professions you listed who refused to be vaxxed and lost their jobs knew what vaccines are. So what?

No one is positing that they are all antivaxxers and vaccine illiterates outside of yourself.But they're all human and some fell for antivaxxer fear mongering.

No, I'm not claiming they are all fully vaccinated. I suspect a vast majority here in Australia are given the high vaccination percentage of the population.

So what are you trying to prove here? Nothing by the looks of it other than making it look like your saying something when you're not. And you prattle on about dishonesty.

God, it's more of the same from Shell. Hot air and more hot air.
It just gets worse and worse. Since you have no personal knowledge or understanding of the immune system, or mRNA vaccine research, or what a virus is or does, you are totally relying on what experts tell you. I'm certainly NOT that restricted! And since every link, article, or video you post, is needed to speak for you, how could you possibly understand any of the nuances of your claims? So why do you think these medical and research professionals also don't feel the need to be vaccinated? I mean, to the point where they are WILLING TO LOSE THEIR OWN JOBS?? Are they all just victims of antivaxxer's rhetoric? Just more huffing, bluffing, and rationalizing! And there's still more,

I said,

"Are they all antivaxxers and vaccine illiterates? Or, are you claiming that EVERY medicos, healthcare worker, virologist/immunologist, science researcher, teacher, and all politicians, ARE ALL FULLY VACCINATED??"

Any moron can see that these simple questions. But intellectually dishonest cowards like you, changed all my questions into positive statements. And, then responded to them as his own straw man. We pro-chose people simply don't understand why you people are acting this way. Whether people are vaccinated or not, 98% of those infected recover. This is a fact. Prochoice people are saying NOT to shutdown the country, not to put people out of work, or suspend our civil liberties and privacy. Prochoice people are telling people that taking vaccines should always be voluntary, and not be forced /coerced. How the fuck is this fear-mongering? Especially, when you have a government who feeds out infection and death numbers every minute of the day. The number of people who are infected daily is irrelevant. It is the TRUE mortality and survival rates that are important.

No, Goodnow is just stating what will happen if people get multiple infections based on analysis of the data researchers have.

It's not about scaring, it's fact. How anyone reacts to this information is their business.

No, people can protect themselves from infection through mass vaccinations, social distancing, hand sanitisers and masks. I've already directed you to studies right at the beginning of this tete-a-tete we're having.


Would you rather keep people ignorant of all information relevant to Covid?

Ok, another nothing burger from Shell and a waste of time and space.


Lets just ignore the scientific fact, that a virus is inert, and smaller than the visible light spectrum. So masks and distancing are useless. Lets also ignore the verifiable fact, that VACCINATED PEOPLE ARE STILL BEING INFECTED AND DYING EACH DAY. So how any non-doofus person could interpret a 97% vaccinated society as being protected from this virus, is truly a mystery to me. But this is your belief-narrative!

Covid is , according to the above, 20 times more virulent than the flu. We use annual vaccines to reduce the lives lost to flu and we recognise the gravity of those deaths. Yet you dismiss flu and even deadlier covid as insignificant and not worth protecting people against. Tell that to the families of the millions who lost their lives.

Were you amongst the brainless and spineless idiots who sent threatening emails and faxes to GPs carrying on about Nuremberg conventions? Warning them of legal action if they vaccinated people? And who weren't brave enough to provide their email or fax addresses or identify themselves in any way?

Bravo, Shell, for being intrepid in facing fines,. being heckled , shouted out and detained ( By who? Untrue Australians? God, you're an idiot).Yet you pule about a little online gaslighting.

Hey, I'm glad you got fined, heckled and detained. You're foolish and a danger to society. Your stupidity would kill people and swamp the medical system. I'll let others conclude how true an Australian you really are.
Sorry, it is not a little gaslighting. IT IS A LOT! Your posts are dripping with all these false assumptions of what I am, think, and mean. And when I do correct you, you still continue to gaslight me. Is there even ONE intellectually honest bone in your body? Is this your only method of discourse?

I'm also glad to be fined heckled, and detained. It was all worth it in the end. If the government's combined intellectual solution to this pandemic, was to keep 26M people 2 meters apart, keep everyone locked down, end the dreams of small business owners, suspend our civil liberties, fine and arrest anyone who doesn't comply, destroy our economy, shut down our major industries, and to force/coerce people to infect themselves, with a 14 month old lab-created drug(vaccines take 10-12 years), then it was worth it just to see the back of them.

You might have been one of the hecklers we passed along our march in the city. Probably not! People like you are more comfortable when they are in the "dying cockroach" position. People like you are always more passive than active. Unlike you, my self-image, ego, and self-perceptions doesn't depend on the opinions and acceptance of others. My family, friends, and community are more than enough.

I don't have a clue about people faxing GP's. Mine agrees with me. Why would any prochoice person threaten a doctor for vaccinate anyone who chooses to be vaccinated? This sounds like another manufactured bullshit story, to justify a manufactured bullshit belief. What possible legal action could stop a doctor from vaccinating a patient? Are we assuming that the patient is an idiot!

Being virulent doesn't mean being more deadlier. But are you saying that for every 20 people infected with the influenza virus, that 400 people are infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus? What is the evidence that supports this claim? YES, I do believe that the influenza and SARS-CoV-2 virus, with a mortality rate of 0.0012(0.1%) in Australia is too insignificant, to justify shutting down a country, and suspending individual liberties.

My stupidity has nothing to do with hospitals being swamped, killing anyone, or my compassion for those the families of the sick and dying. Especially since I am, or never have been infected. But fanatics like you only see those with you, and those against you. Oh, was that a false dilemma, a false dichotomy, or a horned syllogism?? Or was it just accurate?

Science is a self-correcting process.The regulatory authorities correct themselves. You've pointed out some terrible errors and their correction thereof but this was against the vast majority of correct calls. ( Did you just commit your own "cherry picking by omission", Shell? :poketongue) No system is perfect but what is in place is better than what you have to offer.

Again, Shell, dear, you shouldn't take anything. On what basis would you take any drug? Your personal, ignorant intuitions? Why would you take Paxlovid? It's come through the same process you've denounced, "genius". What's more dangerous? The scientific and regulatory process or your demented intuitions? I suspect worse would come from your intuitions.

( So, Shell, haven't you got your cats to go and play with?)
When did we shift the goal post moron? You were one minute parroting that people should blindly put there faith into these regulatory agencies. Whatever drug they tell you is safe, you should just trust them. Now your backpedaling because you've been proven wrong. Now you're squawking about the bloody obvious about science. Characterizing it as a "..self-correcting process", and that their mistakes are just an acceptable margin for error. And, even that most of the time they do get it right. That's even dumber than saying that cops kill unarmed people. And, most of the time they get it right. Go back into your echo chamber, where people are as dumb as you appear to be! And, based on your grammar, syntax, and number of spelling errors, you are definitely no literary giant either.

I've already explained why I would NOT take a drug, for a disease that I don't have. And, the harm that it can cause by doing so. I'll leave that to all the drug junkies like you!
 
And, even if I didn't know exactly why/how these meds work, it doesn't change the fact that THEY STILL FUCKING WORK!!
I snipped all your ranty bullshit

Vaccines work. People who are vaccinated are far less likely to get seriously ill or die. The truth is, we've heard this illiterate ignorant anti vax drivel for years. I came right in with an insult because I read your prior replies and understood you are ignorant, and deliberately so, and well past the point of reason or debate.

I am thrilled you exist. Your views are a right wing grift and they are making more people hate the right wing., This is good for society.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I snipped all your ranty bullshit

Vaccines work. People who are vaccinated are far less likely to get seriously ill or die. The truth is, we've heard this illiterate ignorant anti vax drivel for years. I came right in with an insult because I read your prior replies and understood you are ignorant, and deliberately so, and well past the point of reason or debate.

I am thrilled you exist. Your views are a right wing grift and they are making more people hate the right wing., This is good for society.
No matter what my views are, that's no excuse for personal insults. I never insulted you, or even spoke to you. There is no justification you can make-up to call anyone with a differing opinion an "ignorant cunt", and a "fucking idiot". It's rude and immature. As long as your comments are topic-related, then we're fine. But if you just want to talk smack/shit, I've had a lot more years of practice than you.

Firstly, if you have read all of my other posts objectively, then you would notice that I've never said that this vaccine doesn't work. In fact this vaccine works very well. Let me repeat this again, THIS VACCINE WORKS EXTREMELY WELL!! And, for anyone in the 3 risk categories, I think it is a good idea to be vaccinated with this vaccine. Now are we clear here!!

But, for me there are just too many red flags. It's like having the best prepared steak, potatoes and veggies, prepared by the best chefs in the world, AND SERVING IT TO YOU ON A GABAGE CAN LID!!

Then there's also the false claims, inflated stats, low mortality rates, more antigen-specific antibodies, forced restrictions and coercions, half-truths, locator apps and vaccine passports, potential for abuse, etc.. So, definitely NO THANKS!

I mean, how could anyone still say that this new vaccine prevents people from being infected, becoming seriously ill, or dying from this virus? Especially, when they can see everyday just how many vaccinated people ARE being infected, ARE becoming seriously ill in hospitals, and ARE dying from this virus! It's like you all have blinders on. And still you just keep repeating this lie, in spite of the obvious truth. The condition of your immune system is the only thing that will determine the level of the severity of this illness. Whether you are vaccinated or unvaccinated is irrelevant. Remember the 14 months before vaccines? Were people actually dying on the streets then? Of course not! Over 98% of those infected made full recoveries.

I have no idea what my political ideology has to do with my views about this vaccine. I'm sure people of both ideologies have been vaccinated. Especially, in a 97% vaccinated society, right? I think people like you just need to label anyone with a different opinion, to feel more secure. Oh, and I'm definitely NOT a Republican, or a Conservative!
 
In fact this vaccine works very well.

But, for me there are just too many red flags. It's like having the best prepared steak, potatoes and veggies, prepared by the best chefs in the world, AND SERVING IT TO YOU ON A GABAGE CAN LID!!

Then there's also the false claims, inflated stats, low mortality rates, more antigen-specific antibodies, forced restrictions and coercions, half-truths, locator apps and vaccine passports, potential for abuse, etc.. So, definitely NO THANKS!

I mean, how could anyone still say that this new vaccine prevents people from being infected, becoming seriously ill, or dying from this virus?
So you are a fucking idiot, who contradicted himself? Awesome. No one admits to being right wing anymore LOL!!!
 

Linus

Member
Shell, you've been a waste of time. Reading your garbage is like wading through a tank of shit.

You've ignored the references and data that contradict your stance.You are a potential incubator of mutating viruses, which makes it worse on everyone who got vaxxed. You are public menace with your antivaxxer garbage and refusal to take vaccines and other measures.

If you had your way at the beginning of the pandemic, the medical system would have been overwhelmed in short order and a hell of a lot more people would have been seriously ill or dead. That's what we were facing, idiot. Your temporarily infringed upon freedom was a small price to pay for a looming disaster.

And if you were really among those ranting, protesting idiots at the beginning of the pandemic, you deserved all the heckling, detention etc that was directed your way.

You come across as unhinged. You're a nutjob who doesn't even know whether they're coming or going.

You focus and fixate on some mistakes made by the medical, scientific and regulatory system, which has been overwhelmingly successful in keeping society free from disease and in good health, in order to rail and make a vacuous case against thoroughly tested and safe vaccines.

You concocted your stupid " red flags" which were irrevelant to mRNA vaccination and which painted you into a ridiculous corner of denouncing any medical intervention if you really followed these flags.

You are freeloading on the rest of us who took these vaccines and who take responsible, proven measures such as using hand sanitiser when out and about, social distancing and mask wearing.

It's because of the vaccines, and consequent herd immunity, that idiots like you can harp about small numbers of people getting ill and most recovering. We don't get seriously ill and mostly recover because we're mostly vaccinated.Got that, imbecile?!!

What's more everytime your stupid arguments are knocked down you come back and pule that you weren't saying what you were saying but something else and so on with every turn. Give it a rest.

At the bottom of it all, I know you are a puling hypocrite, pumping on one brain cell, which is in dire need life support. When the chips are down you'll ignore all your crappy opinions, beg for help and stick anything into your arm and swallow any medicine to save your miserable hide.
 
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