Morrison defends mostly peaceful protesters - the left loose their minds!

chris155au

Active member
Why would any rational thinking human think, that any business owner would want violating medical protocols, and committing a criminal offence, to BE public information?
They wouldn't.
Then why did you keep asking???
I didn't.

Oh, I understand perfectly. You are still trying to baffle people with bullshit. Now here is what you actually did say,

"Actually, I hadn't heard about any. Can you name any examples? I imagine that they would have been charged with some sort of offense.".

Why are you asking me to name a business, knowing that it could be charged with an offense?
Because I assumed that their offense was public knowledge and that this was the only reason that you knew about them. Turns out that I was dead wrong.

And then,

"So these businesses which you refer which are ignoring government vaccine mandates ARE public? That's why I asked if you could give an example, because I'm not aware of them.".

Which is it? Because you are not aware of any? Or, because these businesses ARE public businesses? Bit ambiguous!
Yes that was poorly worded by me. I should have instead asked: So is it public information that these businesses which you refer to have ignored government vaccine mandates?

I never said that the activities of these businesses was a matter of public information!!
That is now clear. Here's where the confusion happened. I asked this:

So they're not public, but you DO know of some businesses which are ignoring government vaccine mandates?
And you replied:

Yes they are, and yes I do.
So I took that to mean that their offenses were PUBLIC information. Which is why I could not understand that you were refusing to give examples.

If they were, then why would you need to ask me?? Wouldn't it be public information?
Yes, but it wouldn't exactly be an easy thing to find. I certainly haven't heard of any such stories about businesses refusing to comply with vaccine mandates from government.

There is no doubt that you have a specific purpose for asking these questions. And, that you simply want me to tell you the names of businesses that are ignoring the government's vaccine protocols.
Why, so that I can report them to the police?
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I was thinking Australia, but you asked "where were these vaccine mandates last year" when we didn't even have the vaccine last year in Australia, so I'm not sure what country you are talking about! So again, which country are you talking about?



Yes that's what you said. You said:
"PRIVATE vaccine mandate initiatives by private OR PUBLIC businesses." Did you mean to include PRIVATE vaccine mandate initiatives by PUBLIC businesses? Or did you mean only PRIVATE vaccine mandate initiatives by PRIVATE businesses?



Influenced by? Yeah, you could make that argument I think. But what you seem to be unable to grapple with is this question: if a business adopts a vaccine mandate policy even though they are not required to do so by government, why did they decide to do it and more importantly, who is responsible for that policy?



Well I never mentioned businesses creating their own vaccine initiatives, BEFORE VACCINES WERE EVER CREATED.
Look, it is clear to me that you will just keep playing these silly semantic games, using a new version of my own words against me. You will just continue to find anything that will stick and exploit it. And, down another rabbit hole we will go. All the while not offering one iota of facts, or opinions of your own.

I give up! I can't keep arguing against my own words, against your ever-changing goal posts, against your straw man(what straw man?) arguments, or, against your constant denials(even after quoting your exact words). So please go troll someone else! Clearly you have nothing to offer in your own words. And I am really becoming just bored with always correcting you. And re-explaining myself.

I didn't.



Because I assumed that their offense was public knowledge and that this was the only reason that you knew about them. Turns out that I was dead wrong.



Yes that was poorly worded by me. I should have instead asked: So is it public information that these businesses which you refer to have ignored government vaccine mandates?



That is now clear. Here's where the confusion happened. I asked this:



And you replied:



So I took that to mean that their offenses were PUBLIC information. Which is why I could not understand that you were refusing to give examples.



Yes, but it wouldn't exactly be an easy thing to find. I certainly haven't heard of any such stories about businesses refusing to comply with vaccine mandates from government.



Why, so that I can report them to the police?
This post is just filled with nothing but excuses and lame explanations. Instead of just saying I made a mistake and move on, you have to post a litany of excuses and explanations to save face. This issue is a no-brainer. I have no idea why you are trying to complicate it. Is this more about ego than principles? Is this some kind of narrative dissonance? I'm not the brightest bulb in the box, so I need to stick with mostly common sense. So why all this nonsense??
 

chris155au

Active member
Look, it is clear to me that you will just keep playing these silly semantic games, using a new version of my own words against me. You will just continue to find anything that will stick and exploit it. And, down another rabbit hole we will go. All the while not offering one iota of facts, or opinions of your own.
Again, you seem to be unable to grapple with is this question: if a business adopts a vaccine mandate policy even though they are not required to do so by government, why did they decide to do it and more importantly, who is responsible for that policy?

This post is just filled with nothing but excuses and lame explanations. Instead of just saying I made a mistake and move on, you have to post a litany of excuses and explanations to save face. This issue is a no-brainer. I have no idea why you are trying to complicate it. Is this more about ego than principles? Is this some kind of narrative dissonance? I'm not the brightest bulb in the box, so I need to stick with mostly common sense. So why all this nonsense??
I misunderstood and I'm simply explaining myself. Is it really that hard to understand that this is what I'm doing?
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I misunderstood and I'm simply explaining myself. Is it really that hard to understand that this is what I'm doing?
Yes! Especially when you start explaining yourself, only when you get caught misrepresenting my words, creating your own straw man, asking presumptive questions, or denying statements that you most certainly have stated.

I mean really, why would anyone think that businesses ignoring vaccine restrictions, would want this known to the public? Or, would assume that anyone who keeps asking for the names of those businesses, would think that they would want to report them. It's not rocket science!!

Again, you seem to be unable to grapple with is this question: if a business adopts a vaccine mandate policy even though they are not required to do so by government, why did they decide to do it and more importantly, who is responsible for that policy?
Why are you unable to understand, that businesses would never ever have considered having vaccine mandates, to force their employees to choose between job or jab. Had not the government created the idea in the first place. Businesses didn't just pull the idea out of their asses, just to screw their employees. Businesses are directly responsible for the policies they enact. But their policies are covered under both state and federal health mandates.

But if you are trying to simply state, that "the government didn't force them to make their policies", then so what?? Does this make the government, and all the media hype and disinformation, LESS RESPONSIBLE??
 

chris155au

Active member
Yes! Especially when you start explaining yourself, only when you get caught misrepresenting my words, creating your own straw man, asking presumptive questions, or denying statements that you most certainly have stated.
There you go again, calling it "misrepresenting" rather than MISINTERPRETATION!

I mean really, why would anyone think that businesses ignoring vaccine restrictions, would want this known to the public?
I have no idea why someone would think such an utterly braindead thing! Only a total idiot would think that!

Or, would assume that anyone who keeps asking for the names of those businesses, would think that they would want to report them. It's not rocket science!!
There's nothing sinister about asking for the names of any offending business which the public already knows about. Which AGAIN, is what I thought the case was with the businesses that you were talking about! And by now you should know that I am totally against vaccine mandates - so why THE HELL would you think that I would want to report offending businesses?

Why are you unable to understand, that businesses would never ever have considered having vaccine mandates, to force their employees to choose between job or jab.
Because I don't pretend that all business owners are great people who would never discriminate on the basis of vaccination status! Do you?

Had not the government created the idea in the first place. Businesses didn't just pull the idea out of their asses, just to screw their employees.
It's entirely possible that if the government did not create the idea in the first place, that not one single entity in the land would have adopted a vaccine mandate, but it's extremely unlikely I think - and more importantly, it's totally irrelevant to what we're discussing!

Businesses are directly responsible for the policies they enact. But their policies are covered under both state and federal health mandates.
I'm not sure what you mean by their policies are "COVERED"
under the State and Federal mandates.

But if you are trying to simply state, that "the government didn't force them to make their policies", then so what?? Does this make the government, and all the media hype and disinformation, LESS RESPONSIBLE??
The only thing that I was "trying to simply state" was that not all vaccine mandates in workplaces are due to government policy. I thought that you were saying that this is not the case, but clearly we agree! Great!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
There you go again, calling it "misrepresenting" rather than MISINTERPRETATION!
Either is relevant to my point!!! And now, you've confirmed that my statement is true!

I have no idea why someone would think such an utterly braindead thing! Only a total idiot would think that!
I agree! Now answer the question! Why did you think that businesses would want their breaking the law made public?

There's nothing sinister about asking for the names of any offending business which the public already knows about. Which AGAIN, is what I thought the case was with the businesses that you were talking about! And by now you should know that I am totally against vaccine mandates - so why THE HELL would you think that I would want to report offending businesses?
Are you now saying that you only wanted me to tell you the names of offending businesses, that the public already knows are offending? Only a seasoned con artist could even make-up an excuse like that!!

If you are against vaccine mandates, THEN ACT LIKE IT!! Don't ask questions asking what companies are exposing their improprieties to the public. Or asking questions that question the integrity of the Prime Minister, for wanting all vaccine mandates to end.

Because I don't pretend that all business owners are great people who would never discriminate on the basis of vaccination status! Do you?
What? This has nothing to do with what I've said. Are you implying that I am pretending that owners are great people, and would not discriminate on the basis of vaccine mandate status??

It's entirely possible that if the government did not create the idea in the first place, that not one single entity in the land would have adopted a vaccine mandate, but it's extremely unlikely I think - and more importantly, it's totally irrelevant to what we're discussing!
Is it possible, that not one single business would have adopted the governments initial vaccine mandate strategy, just because it seemed like a good idea at the time? I don't know! Ask your straw man. I only said that these businesses took their lead from the government's Covid-19 vaccine mandate policies. Considering that there were none enacted, until after the government got away with theirs. And, I seriously doubt that you even know what we are talking about.

I'm not sure what you mean by their policies are "COVERED"
under the State and Federal mandates.
I said, "..their policies are covered under both state and federal HEALTH mandates.". Stop leaving out words. It gives the wrong meaning. I know, just another unintentional mistake! Can't you look up what these government's emergency healthcare rules are? I guarantee that these businesses, and their lawyers have! So, when I say "covered", I mean protected, not held responsible, and not held liable. Or, are you feigning more ignorance again?

The only thing that I was "trying to simply state" was that not all vaccine mandates in workplaces are due to government policy. I thought that you were saying that this is not the case, but clearly we agree! Great!
If this is all you were, "trying to state", then please tell me, what other vaccine mandates in the workplace, are NOT due to, or influenced by the government's policy? Are there polio, smallpox, or measles passports??? Since there is only ONE vaccine mandate policy(Covid-19), we do not agree. And, this was never a point raised by me.

Look, you can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own logic.
 

chris155au

Active member
I agree! Now answer the question! Why did you think that businesses would want their breaking the law made public?
I didn't. That would be stupid to think that.

Are you now saying that you only wanted me to tell you the names of offending businesses, that the public already knows are offending?
CORRECT! And the post that you are replying to is NOT the first time that I've made that CRYSTAL CLEAR!

Only a seasoned con artist could even make-up an excuse like that!!
IF it was an excuse, which it is not!

What? This has nothing to do with what I've said. Are you implying that I am pretending that owners are great people, and would not discriminate on the basis of vaccine mandate status??
No, I was asking a question. The question was: Do you think that all business owners are great people who would never discriminate on the basis of vaccination status? Because if your answer to that question is a resounding NO, then it shouldn't be hard to think that even without government vaccine mandates, there would still be plenty of discrimination going on right now.

I only said that these businesses took their lead from the government's Covid-19 vaccine mandate policies.
Well, this is an assumption.

I said, "..their policies are covered under both state and federal HEALTH mandates.". Stop leaving out words. It gives the wrong meaning. I know, just another unintentional mistake! Can't you look up what these government's emergency healthcare rules are? I guarantee that these businesses, and their lawyers have! So, when I say "covered", I mean protected, not held responsible, and not held liable. Or, are you feigning more ignorance again?
Well the lawyers would have also looked more generally at employment law, and human rights law, in which there is nothing preventing discrimination of the basis of vaccine status - unfortunately. So even without government vaccine mandates, the law would have given employers license to do as much discrimination as they like.

If this is all you were, "trying to state", then please tell me, what other vaccine mandates in the workplace, are NOT due to, or influenced by the government's policy?
It is impossible to know what voluntary vaccine mandates would be around if wasn't for State government vaccine mandates. It's very likely that a vast bunch of workplaces would still have them, but perhaps not as many - who knows.

Since there is only ONE vaccine mandate policy(Covid-19), we do not agree. And, this was never a point raised by me.
I don't see how just because there is only ONE vaccine mandate policy (Covid-19), this means that we do not agree! You obviously agree that not all vaccine mandates in workplaces are due to government mandates! I initially thought that you were saying that all vaccine mandates in workplaces ARE due to government mandates. So this means that we agree!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I don't see how just because there is only ONE vaccine mandate policy (Covid-19), this means that we do not agree! You obviously agree that not all vaccine mandates in workplaces are due to government mandates! I initially thought that you were saying that all vaccine mandates in workplaces ARE due to government mandates. So this means that we agree!
The goal post has changed again! Since there are no other government vaccine mandates in the workplace, your premises is false, and makes no rational sense.

"You obviously agree that not all vaccine mandates in workplaces are due to government mandates!".

I don't agree. Because this statement assumes that there are other vaccine mandates in the workplace. Vaccine mandates that demand workers to choose between a jab, or their job. But, of course, there are no other government created vaccine mandates that exist in the workplace. Or, ever have existed! Covid-19 is the only vaccine mandate. So again, we don't agree!

It is impossible to know what voluntary vaccine mandates would be around if wasn't for State government vaccine mandates. It's very likely that a vast bunch of workplaces would still have them, but perhaps not as many - who knows.
But of course we are not talking about VOLUNTARY vaccine mandates are we? Especially since VOLUNTARY and MANDATORY are oxymoronic, right? Another silly straw man has just been created! I don't speculate. Especially, without any rational basis for my speculation.

Well the lawyers would have also looked more generally at employment law, and human rights law, in which there is nothing preventing discrimination of the basis of vaccine status - unfortunately. So even without government vaccine mandates, the law would have given employers license to do as much discrimination as they like.
So you are now in favor of legalized discrimination in society?? Just as long as it doesn't violate workplace and human rights laws? Unfortunately the government can interpret the law anyway it damn well pleases. As long as it can justify its actions by claiming that a medical emergency exists, it can simply ignore and violate ALL of our basic civil and human rights and liberties. This government only needs to mention Delta and the Omicron variations, and the sheeples will just assume that they are both worst that their parent. It can then create any other excuse it wants to extend this medical emergency indefinitely. The sheeples will just continue nodding, agreeing and defending whatever they are being told.

People don't care anymore if an Australian is even infected or not. Or, if a person is already immune or not. People are only interested in if they are vaccinated or not. If people feel that they need to infect themselves with a disease, that over 99% of Australians don't even have, then that is their business. If people actually believe that this vaccine will protect them from dying, then why would they be worried about those who are unvaccinated or uninfected? Or, be worried even if they did become infected? Insane!!

What is ironic about this vaccine, is that it

doesn't protect anyone from becoming infected with Covid-19
doesn't prevent anyone from spreading Covid-19
doesn't prevent anyone from dying from Covid-19
doesn't protect anyone against any variant of this Covid-19
weakens our own natural immune system, by producing antigen-specific antibodies
produces side effects(adverse events) that can kill us, or make us seriously ill

And, yet we still want to force every man, woman, and even children to inject this poison into their body?

It's been almost two fucking years!! Less than 1% of the population has still been infected. Much less than 1% of the population has still died from complications of this virus. Over 98% of those infected with this virus still recover from this virus(vaccinated or not). So why is this a medical emergency or healthcare crisis?

Does any moron out there think that there are 233K infected people in Australia today?? So, why does the media keep printing and broadcasting these numbers? Why don't they tell you how many people have died from either of these new strains? How about how many people are recovering each day, who have NOT been vaccinated? Can't people think beyond what you are being told??

I didn't. That would be stupid to think that.
So are you now saying that you repeatedly asked me(quoted) to tell you which businesses were violating mandate restrictions, because you know that they DIDN'T want this information public?? Either way, both rationales are stupid.

CORRECT! And the post that you are replying to is NOT the first time that I've made that CRYSTAL CLEAR!
How could I possibly know what the offending businesses are, that the public already knows?? I can only tell you the offending business that I know.

No, I was asking a question. The question was: Do you think that all business owners are great people who would never discriminate on the basis of vaccination status? Because if your answer to that question is a resounding NO, then it shouldn't be hard to think that even without government vaccine mandates, there would still be plenty of discrimination going on right now.
These are called loaded/presumptive questions. Because the conclusions are already in the questions, regardless of whatever answer I give. They are fallacious, and intellectually dishonest. I have no idea if ALL business owners are great people. Or, if they WOULD NEVER discriminate on the basis of vaccination status. I am not God!

Other countries are seeing the people of Australia as weak and immature. Because they are just letting these idiots get away with this without even a fight!!! Maybe Australians are no better than the Jews getting on the train, because they were told to by the Germans???
 

chris155au

Active member
"You obviously agree that not all vaccine mandates in workplaces are due to government mandates!".

I don't agree. Because this statement assumes that there are other vaccine mandates in the workplace. Vaccine mandates that demand workers to choose between a jab, or their job. But, of course, there are no other government created vaccine mandates that exist in the workplace. Or, ever have existed! Covid-19 is the only vaccine mandate. So again, we don't agree!
I'll rephrase: You obviously agree that not all COVID vaccine mandates in
workplaces are due to government mandates! I initially thought that you were
saying that all COVID vaccine mandates in workplaces ARE due to
government mandates. So this means that we agree!

But of course we are not talking about VOLUNTARY vaccine mandates are we?
Yes we are. Try reading it again: It is impossible to know what voluntary vaccine mandates would be around if it wasn't for State government vaccine mandates. It's very likely that a vast bunch of workplaces would still have them, but perhaps not as many - who knows.

So you are now in favor of legalized discrimination in society??
Sometimes I wonder if your brain works. There is NOTHING that I have said which would make any rational person think that I am in favor of legalised discrimination in society, especially since I HAVE SAID A MILLION TIMES THAT I AM AGAINST VACCINE MANDATES/DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF VACCINE STATUS! FUCKING HELL!

READ IT AGAIN: Well the lawyers would have also looked more generally at employment law, and human rights law, in which there is nothing preventing discrimination of the basis of vaccine status - UNFORTUNATELY. (Do you see that fucking word in bold capital letters?) Why in the FUCK would I say that it's unfortunate if I was in favor of legalised discrimination in society?

What is ironic about this vaccine, is that it

doesn't protect anyone from becoming infected with Covid-19
doesn't prevent anyone from spreading Covid-19
doesn't prevent anyone from dying from Covid-19
doesn't protect anyone against any variant of this Covid-19
Does ANY vaccine prevent infection, spread and death?

Does any moron out there think that there are 233K infected people in Australia today??
Where's the 233k figure coming from?

So are you now saying that you repeatedly asked me(quoted) to tell you which businesses were violating mandate restrictions, because you know that they DIDN'T want this information public??
Nope. I repeatedly asked you to tell me which businesses were violating mandate restrictions, because I THOUGHT that you were talking about stories which were public.

How could I possibly know what the offending businesses are, that the public already knows?? I can only tell you the offending business that I know.
Yes, and it's those ones which I was asking for!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I'll rephrase: You obviously agree that not all COVID vaccine mandates in
workplaces are due to government mandates! I initially thought that you were
saying that all COVID vaccine mandates in workplaces ARE due to
government mandates. So this means that we agree!
Gibberish! There are no other vaccine mandates in the workplace, other than Covid-19 vaccination mandates. The government started them, and private companies adopted them. Simple! A person needs to be vaccinated to be employed. A person needs to be vaccinated to keep being employed. A person need to provide proof of vaccination. A person needs to carry a Covid-19 vaccination card as ID to enter businesses. These are just some of the Covid-19 MANDATES that many businesses have now adopted.

So what examples of non-government inspired mandates can you deposit?

READ IT AGAIN: Well the lawyers would have also looked more generally at employment law, and human rights law, in which there is nothing preventing discrimination of the basis of vaccine status - UNFORTUNATELY. (Do you see that fucking word in bold capital letters?) Why in the FUCK would I say that it's unfortunate if I was in favor of legalised discrimination in society?
I don't know!! Why the fuck would you even mention that lawyers have looked at employment and civil rights laws, and concluded that legalized discrimination is okay, IN THE FIRST PLACE?? This was never part of any question. And, "Unfortunately" could also mean "tough shit". Which could also imply that your ARE in favor of legalized discrimination.

Does ANY vaccine prevent infection, spread and death?
NO.

Where's the 233k figure coming from?
Type in, c o v i d 1 9 i n A u s t r a l i a, Then look all the way to the right and down. Stop when you see "total cases". At the time I read it, it was 233K.

Nope. I repeatedly asked you to tell me which businesses were violating mandate restrictions, because I THOUGHT that you were talking about stories which were public.
This gibberish doesn't make any sense to me. What does "..stories that were public.." even mean? Never mind. The answer is still the same, it is none of your business.

Yes, and it's those ones which I was asking for!
Wow! You've just asked me again to tell you who the offending businesses are. How many times are you going to keep denying, exactly what you keep doing over and over? Are you really this dishonest or conflicted?? Stop asking me this! It is none of your business. This forum of sheeples would be the last place I would divulge that kind of information!!
 

chris155au

Active member
I'll rephrase: You obviously agree that not all COVID vaccine mandates in
workplaces are due to government mandates! I initially thought that you were
saying that all COVID vaccine mandates in workplaces ARE due to
government mandates. So this means that we agree!
Gibberish! There are no other vaccine mandates in the workplace, other than Covid-19 vaccination mandates.
Yes, that's why I specified "COVID vaccine mandates!" I thought that I made that perfectly clear by bolding "COVID!" See my quote above in this reply. See - "COVID!"

The government started them, and private companies adopted them.
Yes, but not all private companies HAD to adopt them but many still did!

So what examples of non-government inspired mandates can you deposit?
How the hell do you know which mandates were "government inspired?"

I don't know!! Why the fuck would you even mention that lawyers have looked at employment and civil rights laws, and concluded that legalized discrimination is okay, IN THE FIRST PLACE??
Because it's true isn't it? Discrimination on the basis of vaccine status is apparently perfectly legal. Tell me if I'm wrong. I just thought that there was a reason that every single legal case so far has been thrown out of court after about 5 seconds.

This was never part of any question. And, "Unfortunately" could also mean "tough shit". Which could also imply that your ARE in favor of legalized discrimination.
Which by now you should know that I'm not. Either that, or you're totally brain-dead.
 

chris155au

Active member
Can't you look up what these government's emergency healthcare rules are? I guarantee that these businesses, and their lawyers have!
And what is it that you think these businesses, and their lawyers would have found in the emergency healthcare rules? Something good for the business, or something bad for the business?

What is ironic about this vaccine, is that it

doesn't protect anyone from becoming infected with Covid-19
doesn't prevent anyone from spreading Covid-19
doesn't prevent anyone from dying from Covid-19
Does ANY vaccine prevent infection, spread and death?
So then what makes the COVID vaccine different to other vaccines?

This gibberish doesn't make any sense to me. What does "..stories that were public.." even mean? Never mind.
It's really not complicated. A story in the news about a business which has ignored vaccine mandates. I would call that a public story.

The answer is still the same, it is none of your business.
Stories which are public are everyone's business, including mine.

How could I possibly know what the offending businesses are, that the public already knows?? I can only tell you the offending business that I know.
Yes, and it's those ones which I was asking for!
Wow! You've just asked me again to tell you who the offending businesses are.
Well first of all I said that "it's those ones which I WAS asking for" which is PAST TENSE! So how in the hell could you take that to mean that I'm asking "AGAIN?" Secondly, I thought that the offending business that you know were businesses that you found out about from the news.

Does any moron out there think that there are 233K infected people in Australia today??
I've never heard anyone say that, have you? That's how many people we know have been infected at some point or another.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Yes, that's why I specified "COVID vaccine mandates!" I thought that I made that perfectly clear by bolding "COVID!" See my quote above in this reply. See - "COVID!"
Appeal to semantics! Not interested.

Yes, but not all private companies HAD to adopt them but many still did!
Appeal to absolutes. You changed my general comment to mean "ALL covid-19 mandates..", and provided zero examples. This is just more intellectual dishonesty.

Yes, but not all private companies HAD to adopt them but many still did!
How the hell do you know which mandates were "government inspired?"
These are your straw man, so answer them. I never claimed that ALL private companies adopted ALL government vaccine mandates. Now you want me to tell you WHICH vaccines are government-inspired, and which aren't? This is just literary nonsense!

Because it's true isn't it? Discrimination on the basis of vaccine status is apparently perfectly legal. Tell me if I'm wrong. I just thought that there was a reason that every single legal case so far has been thrown out of court after about 5 seconds.
That was not my question. And, there goes that, "I just thought..." again!

Which by now you should know that I'm not. Either that, or you're totally brain-dead.
Then I am definitely brain-dead. Or, soon will be.

And what is it that you think these businesses, and their lawyers would have found in the emergency healthcare rules? Something good for the business, or something bad for the business?
So, that's a NO I take it? You ARE unable to look it up.

So then what makes the COVID vaccine different to other vaccines?
Already stated many times. Or, just look up the differences.

It's really not complicated. A story in the news about a business which has ignored vaccine mandates. I would call that a public story.
Stories which are public are everyone's business, including mine.
If these stories are public, then why the fuck are you asking me? Aren't they public? You were simply asking me to tell you which businesses were not complying with the vaccine mandates, period! You know it and I know it!! The rest is just more bullshit.

Well first of all I said that "it's those ones which I WAS asking for" which is PAST TENSE! So how in the hell could you take that to mean that I'm asking "AGAIN?" Secondly, I thought that the offending business that you know were businesses that you found out about from the news.
Do you ever take responsibility for anything out of your mouth? Is semantics always your default security blanket, when you get caught out, or your argument is challenged??

I've never heard anyone say that, have you? That's how many people we know have been infected at some point or another.
NO! This is how many Australians have been infected OVER a two year period. NOT AT SOME POINT OR ANOTHER! There are around 30K active cases in Australia TODAY. With 29.7K Australians expected to survive in a couple of weeks. Why do you think the media ignores these truths, perspectives, and context? Sensationalism??

Look my patience is not unlimited. If all the information going in, is only going to become garbage coming out, or just answering questions with questions, then we're done here!! There is zero exchange of information going on.
 

chris155au

Active member
Appeal to semantics! Not interested.
I have no idea what you're talking about. The point remains: not all COVID vaccine mandates in workplaces are due to government mandates! SIMPLE! If you disagree then you're being inconsistent, given that you previously said that you agree that we will probably never NOT become an unvaccinated/vaccinated Australia, but not necessarily because of government mandates. You asked:
When will Australia NOT become an unvaccinated/vaccinated Australia??
I replied:
Probably never, but not necessarily because of government mandates.
You replied:
Appeal to absolutes. You changed my general comment to mean "ALL covid-19 mandates..", and provided zero examples.
I already provided the example of Qantas issuing a national company wide mandate which had nothing to do with the government, and then you even provided the example of BHP's failed national company wide mandate!

Now you want me to tell you WHICH vaccines are government-inspired, and which aren't?
No, I'm not asking you to tell me, because I know that there's no possible way that you could know! And the question that I asked was: "How the hell do you know which mandates were "government inspired?" I did NOT ask you to tell me which vaccines mandates are government-inspired.

That was not my question. And, there goes that, "I just thought..." again!
Whatever. You are the one who mentioned lawyers, and I'm simply making the point that Discrimination on the basis of vaccine status is apparently perfectly legal. And I think that this reality is terrible! We can obviously agree on that!

This was never part of any question. And, "Unfortunately" could also mean "tough shit". Which could also imply that your ARE in favor of legalized discrimination.
Which by now you should know that I'm not. Either that, or you're totally brain-dead.
Then I am definitely brain-dead. Or, soon will be.
With this you seem to have made it clear that you think I am in favour of legalized discrimination! Fuck you're an idiot!

So, that's a NO I take it? You ARE unable to look it up.
I don't know what you mean by "emergency healthcare rules."

Already stated many times. Or, just look up the differences.
You specified the COVID vaccine's inability to protect from infection, spread and death. In those three respects, it is no different to any other vaccine. That's my point.

If these stories are public, then why the fuck are you asking me? Aren't they public?
I thought you were talking about stories that are public which I hadn't heard about.

NO! This is how many Australians have been infected OVER a two year period. NOT AT SOME POINT OR ANOTHER!
Yes, some point or another over a two year period. Simple!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I have no idea what you're talking about. The point remains: not all COVID vaccine mandates in workplaces are due to government mandates! SIMPLE! If you disagree then you're being inconsistent, given that you previously said that you agree that we will probably never NOT become an unvaccinated/vaccinated Australia, but not necessarily because of government mandates. You asked:


I replied:


You replied:




I already provided the example of Qantas issuing a national company wide mandate which had nothing to do with the government, and then you even provided the example of BHP's failed national company wide mandate!



No, I'm not asking you to tell me, because I know that there's no possible way that you could know! And the question that I asked was: "How the hell do you know which mandates were "government inspired?" I did NOT ask you to tell me which vaccines mandates are government-inspired.



Whatever. You are the one who mentioned lawyers, and I'm simply making the point that Discrimination on the basis of vaccine status is apparently perfectly legal. And I think that this reality is terrible! We can obviously agree on that!







With this you seem to have made it clear that you think I am in favour of legalized discrimination! Fuck you're an idiot!



I don't know what you mean by "emergency healthcare rules."



You specified the COVID vaccine's inability to protect from infection, spread and death. In those three respects, it is no different to any other vaccine. That's my point.



I thought you were talking about stories that are public which I hadn't heard about.



Yes, some point or another over a two year period. Simple!

Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year Chris.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Same to you. Obviously I have made my point clear and you now understand that not all COVID vaccine mandates in workplaces are due to government mandates! Great!
Your point is NOT clear Chris. Not until you can name one Covid-19 vaccinate mandate in the workplace, that was NOT inspired/influenced by the government's mandates. What I do understand, is that some industries are being preemptive, and are adopting the same government mandates. The only two mandates that I know of, are that in some essential industries, you must show proof of vaccination for Covid-19, or look for employment elsewhere. And, that in most businesses, you must show proof of Covid-19 vaccination, or you won't be allowed entry. Actually, there is really just one!

So what are other Covid-19 vaccine mandate in the workplace, that were NOT inspired by the government's earlier mandates?

Qantas started making the jab mandatory on August 17th 2021. Of course this mandate only applies to its "frontline workers". Not for its executives or higher admin staff.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08...ccinations-covid19-workers-pandemic/100386206

Politicians and federal workers are also NOT required to get jabbed to keep their jobs! Do you think that if a minister decides not to be vaccinated, that he will be fired? I doubt it.

Unfortunately, censorship is welded by an egoist. If some people disagree with me, they will just label my comments as a conspiracy theory, and close down the thread. Just like Galileo was tried and convicted on suspicion of Heresy, by the fearful and ignorant church.

So it might be best that you stick to mediocracy, and the bandwagon mentality. Especially if you want to appease the ignorant.
 

chris155au

Active member
Your point is NOT clear Chris. Not until you can name one Covid-19 vaccinate mandate in the workplace, that was NOT inspired/influenced by the government's mandates.
I can't. Just like you cannot name one Covid-19 vaccinate mandate in the workplace that WAS inspired/influenced by government mandates.

What I do understand, is that some industries are being preemptive, and are adopting the same government mandates.
Or simply because they want to because they don't see any issue with discrimination of the basis of vaccine status.

The only two mandates that I know of, are that in some essential industries, you must show proof of vaccination for Covid-19, or look for employment elsewhere. And, that in most businesses, you must show proof of Covid-19 vaccination, or you won't be allowed entry. Actually, there is really just one!
What's your point?

Qantas started making the jab mandatory on August 17th 2021.
What's your point?

Politicians and federal workers are also NOT required to get jabbed to keep their jobs! Do you think that if a minister decides not to be vaccinated, that he will be fired? I doubt it.
Well I know that the Victorian Parliament has mandated it for MP's who wish to attend in person, but what's your point? This is totally irrelevant.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I can't. Just like you cannot name one Covid-19 vaccinate mandate in the workplace that WAS inspired/influenced by government mandates.
No Chris. I won't(not can't) name the businesses because it would draw undo attention to them. And since they are refusing to abide by the governments mandates, they could be fined or even arrested. Just like in a fascist country.

You can't answer because, THERE ARE NO COVID-19 MANDATE IN THE WORKPLACE, THAT WAS NOT INSPIRED BY THE GOVERNMENT'S MANDATES! Period!

Or simply because they want to because they don't see any issue with discrimination of the basis of vaccine status.
I think that is more a rational than a reason. If there were no threat of fines or arrests, would discrimination based on vaccine status, even be an issue? I think any business owner would put profits above vaccine status. Don't you?

What's your point?
That you must get a jab, or proof of a jab, in order to be employed, or move freely in most businesses.

What's your point?
That these mandates happened AFTER government mandates. Not before.

Well I know that the Victorian Parliament has mandated it for MP's who wish to attend in person, but what's your point? This is totally irrelevant.
Clearly, if those creating the mandates for others to follow, then they should also follow them. Obviously. But again this is State government. Not the national government.
 

chris155au

Active member
No Chris. I won't(not can't) name the businesses because it would draw undo attention to them.
You seem to think that I'm talking about the business that you know which are ignoring certain rules. You're totally confused. I'm talking about Covid-19 vaccinate mandates in workplaces which obviously does not relate to the businesses that you know which are ignoring certain rules like vaccine mandates. Again, I can't name one Covid-19 vaccinate mandate in the workplace that was NOT inspired/influenced by government mandates, just like you cannot name one Covid-19 vaccinate mandate in the workplace that WAS inspired/influenced by government mandates.

You can't answer because, THERE ARE NO COVID-19 MANDATE IN THE WORKPLACE, THAT WAS NOT INSPIRED BY THE GOVERNMENT'S MANDATES! Period!
There is no possible way that you could know that.

If there were no threat of fines or arrests, would discrimination based on vaccine status, even be an issue?
Well Qantas wasn't threatened with fines or arrests if they did not adopt a national vaccine mandate for employees. So why did they do it?

I think any business owner would put profits above vaccine status. Don't you?
Well that's a good point, but it only applies to vaccination requirements for customers entering businesses. I would say that it would be extremely unlikely that there would be anywhere NEAR the level of vaccination requirements for customers entering businesses if it wasn't for government mandates. However, I think that many still would, one reason being that they think that by requiring vaccination, they are making their business safer and without requiring vaccination they think they would loose customers.
But we are talking about vaccine mandates for staff, and while I can point to Qantas as an example of that, I am not aware of any business which is not required by government to check customer vaccine status, but does so anyway. But do any exist? I guess there are likely some out there. Who knows.

That these mandates happened AFTER government mandates. Not before.
That proves nothing. For all you know there are countless business owners who had planned to adopt such mandates even before the vaccines were developed!

Clearly, if those creating the mandates for others to follow, then they should also follow them. Obviously. But again this is State government. Not the national government.
Alright, so is your point that it is hypocritical that
there is no vaccine mandate for Federal MP's?
 
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