Morrison defends mostly peaceful protesters - the left loose their minds!

[Shellandshilo1956]

Trump never lied?

I think that you are missing the point here. Do actors lie, or do they simply read from a script while playing a role? Do politicians lie? Or, do they also read from a nonsense script, using a nonsense language(national security, public's interests, social security, equal opportunity, etc.), to support impossible their promises, to justify their blatant lies/failures?? Do politicians lie, or do they just spin a new narrative? In their world, it's all about spin! But when we do nothing about it, this spin can become fact(WMD's). So why do we keep hiring people to represent us, who are just liars and spin-doctors? Is it because they are the best actors that we can closely identify with? Or, do we just want to believe in the snake-oil that they're peddling, more than the actual truth??

Trump was a life-long criminal, an old senile misogynist, racist, xenophobe, with no political or military experience. A sociopath who lied through his teeth, and was clearly the establishment's mindless puppet. And yet, over half of the country identified with him personally, and voted for him to represent them. Including the 43% of the population who voted for him back!! In contrast, Tulsi Gabbard was never a criminal, is a young woman who never lied, had both military and political experience, was certainly no misogynist, xenophobe or racist, but nevertheless instantly became the establishment's most dangerous social pariah. This clearly demonstrates, just how relative and dangerous the truth can be!!

So why are you listening to people that you know are lying to you, about the facts of Covid-19? Are they telling the truth about this Pandemic??

I have no idea what you're referring to. How am I not being honest?

You said,

"Surely you don't think that the only people who have lost their jobs for not getting vaccinated are people who have lost their jobs because of government mandates.".

You are inferring that what I'm saying is not true. If you believe that these people are NOT being fired for refusing to be vaccinated, because of the government's vaccine mandates, then lets hear your reasoning?? Otherwise, you are just being misleading and intellectually dishonest. Don't just raise questions, without providing some evidence to support your concerns.

Maybe I can phrase it in a different way: Surely you don't think that no employer has adopted their own voluntary vaccine mandate policy.

With all due respect, this is just gibberish. There is no such thing as a "VOLUNTARY vaccine MANDATE policy". This is just oxymoronic.

Can we please focus on the bigger picture? Please!! I have nothing but respect for all the non-sheeples in Australia. They have the real courage to protect the Australian flock. They are the real "True Blue's". These leaders will learn that it is the people who are really in charge. Not them. They know that they can always fool idiots all of the time!

Here's something that I didn't know but suspected,

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

If you have some time to understand what these experimental vaccines are actually doing to the body, from a scientific perspective, then this video might be of interest you. Or not!

 

[chris155au]

Do politicians lie? Or, do they also read from a nonsense script, using a nonsense language(national security, public's interests, social security, equal opportunity, etc.), to support impossible their promises, to justify their blatant lies/failures??

Can't it be both?

Do politicians lie, or do they just spin a new narrative?

Can't it be both?

[Trump was] a sociopath who lied through his teeth,

So then why are you asking me if politicians lie if you're saying that Trump lied? Remember, you previously said that "politicians don't actually lie."

and was clearly the establishment's mindless puppet.

What is "the establishment" in your mind?

You are inferring that what I'm saying is not true. If you believe that these people are NOT being fired for refusing to be vaccinated, because of the government's vaccine mandates, then lets hear your reasoning??

Which government? In NSW we don't have widespread vaccine mandates for workers.

With all due respect, this is just gibberish. There is no such thing as a "VOLUNTARY vaccine MANDATE policy". This is just oxymoronic.

As in, a employer adopting a VOLUNTARY policy (as in not government forced) whereby it is MANDATORY for their employees to be vaccinated! Still don't understand? I don't know how much clearer I can make it!

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

As in, a employer adopting a VOLUNTARY policy (as in not government forced) whereby it is MANDATORY for their employees to be vaccinated! Still don't understand? I don't know how much clearer I can make it!

Again you are just doubling down, and revising/restating the same gibberish! Let me explain, as clearly as I can. NO INDUSTRY IN AUSTRALIA SHOULD BE FORCING THEIR EMPLOYEES TO CHOOSE BETWEEN BEING VACCINATED OR BEING FIRED! SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS MANDATED BY THE GOVERNMENT!! Maybe you can provide evidence of industries adopting these voluntary policies? My point is, that these industries shouldn't have to!!

Have you even seen the list of event venues, industries, events, and hospitality venues that DO require their staff to be vaccinated, or risk losing their job? If employers did opt to adopt some imaginary voluntary policy(ignore the mandate), they would be opening themselves up to large fines OR imprisonment. Remember, without these government imposed mandates, no voluntary policies would even exist!! The only thing real in your hypothetical, is that it is mandatory for employees in certain industries to be vaccinated. OR THEY WILL LOSE THEIR JOBS!!

Which government? In NSW we don't have widespread vaccine mandates for workers.

Do ALL governments impose vaccine mandates for workers in a widespread number of industries? Or, NOT? My point is that there should be zero mandates period. Didn't you even look at the videos? You should be providing your own answers. Not asking these silly questions.

What is "the establishment" in your mind?

Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, "the Man", and a political disease. The "establishment" is the evolved politico-social feedback loop, that is controlled by the economic and the political elites.

So then why are you asking me if politicians lie if you're saying that Trump lied? Remember, you previously said that "politicians don't actually lie."

My actual statement was,

"Politicians don't actually lie. They simply speak a nonsense language, that accommodates for all creative political narratives(lies).".

I really thought that I was just being flippant in my remarks. But taking my words out of context(by omission), is called misrepresentation. It gives the impression that I've said something, but leaves out the why, which explains my complete thought. It it a logical fallacy, and just being intellectually dishonest. Do you understand what the role of actors are? These people are fake. They can only perform the role that is allowed by the establishment, and accepted by the people. We are the ones who are real, and the architects of our own political-social reality.

Can't it be both?

Can't it be both?

Yes to both.

 

[chris155au]

Again you are just doubling down, and revising/restating the same gibberish! Let me explain, as clearly as I can. NO INDUSTRY IN AUSTRALIA SHOULD BE FORCING THEIR EMPLOYEES TO CHOOSE BETWEEN BEING VACCINATED OR BEING FIRED!

I agree, I'm just simply saying that it's happening outside of government mandates.

SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS MANDATED BY THE GOVERNMENT!! Maybe you can provide evidence of industries adopting these voluntary policies?

'Vaccinations are the only way to end the cycle of lockdowns'. That's why Qantas is making them mandatory

Qantas Group will make it mandatory for all of its 22,000 employees to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19.

www.abc.net.au

Have you even seen the list of event venues, industries, events, and hospitality venues that DO require their staff to be vaccinated, or risk losing their job?

The list for which State?

If employers did opt to adopt some imaginary voluntary policy(ignore the mandate), they would be opening themselves up to large fines OR imprisonment.

How so? Unfortunately discrimination on the basis of vaccination status is perfectly legal. It is indeed the only widely socially acceptable form of discrimination now. People have tried legal action, and have lost their cases within seconds of initiating the action. It's sad, but that's the brutal reality of the situation.

Remember, without these government imposed mandates, no voluntary policies would even exist!!

Well if it's government imposed, then it's not voluntary, by definition.

Do ALL governments impose vaccine mandates for workers in a widespread number of industries?

Outside of health, no. NSW is an example.

Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, "the Man", and a political disease. The "establishment" is the evolved politico-social feedback loop, that is controlled by the economic and the political elites.

It's really the LIBERAL establishment to be precise. Conservatives really don't have any influence. Why do you have Jeb Bush in there?

My actual statement was,

"Politicians don't actually lie. They simply speak a nonsense language, that accommodates for all creative political narratives(lies).".

So is this just another way of saying that they lie?

 

[Biggles53]

You're clearly a Labor supporter and are hurt by what I said about the USELESS Shorten, and you have nothing to say other than some grammar police crap!

Wrong! I’m someone who learnt my language well and becomes irritated by those who abuse it…

 

[HBS Guy]

A pedant in other words . The spelling/grammar nazi in me sometimes comes to the fore.

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

How so? Unfortunately discrimination on the basis of vaccination status is perfectly legal. It is indeed the only widely socially acceptable form of discrimination now. People have tried legal action, and have lost their cases within seconds of initiating the action. It's sad, but that's the brutal reality of the situation.

Again, I don't think that you understand what I am saying. I'm not saying that employees should seek legal actions, based on discrimination. That would not be a viable legal option. The government has exploited the wordings in the Federal Discrimination act, to avoid any legal liabilities(like Pfizer does). However, the people can save their jobs, by also exploiting the Federal Discrimination Act. If they have a medical condition(physical or emotional), that can be aggravated by injecting this poison into them, they can be exempt from being fired from their jobs. They can't be refused entry into shops and venues. This would be discrimination based on a disability. This is illegal, and the owners of these businesses can then be sued!

COVID-19 vaccinations and federal discrimination law | Australian Human Rights Commission

humanrights.gov.au

Since the Health Act does not actually order the involuntary vaccination of anyone, pretty much all other forms of social discrimination are okay.

I agree, I'm just simply saying that it's happening outside of government mandates.

I agree that some employers are choosing to ignore this government's overreach into their affairs. But to be a voluntary policy, there must not be any punitive consequence regarding the choice you make. Otherwise, the choice is conditional, NOT VOLUNTARY! For example, If people voluntarily choose to wear useless masks, that is their choice. But if people voluntarily choose not to wear a mask, then the condition will be, that they may be fined or imprisoned. No realistic choice exists. Therefore, the only choice employers have, is to ignore this mandates or to enforce them.

Outside of health, no. NSW is an example.

I think that teachers and some construction workers were also on the mandatory vaccine list. But you can look up the specific industries yourself. I think that the bigger picture here is, is this what you want Australia to look like in the future? Every time someone catches the flu, we go into lockdown?

Business rules for NSW

Rules and restrictions for Greater Sydney including the Blue Mountains and Wollongong.

www.nsw.gov.au

It's really the LIBERAL establishment to be precise. Conservatives really don't have any influence. Why do you have Jeb Bush in there?

Do you really think that it is the politicians who form the establishment? Are they the shakers and movers within the status quo? Politicians are just public servants! The real shakers and movers act behind the curtains. They are the real policy makers. These are the wealthy elites that pulled us out of the '29 depression. These are the elites that control the price of energy, and the distribution of all wealth. Politicians are merely the best actors to represent the will of these elites. There is a long list of dead actors, who have spoken out against the establishment's elites.

Jeb Bush? Hillary denied she only represented the establishment. But Jeb, was dumb enough to actually own it. He lost!!

So is this just another way of saying that they lie?

Sort of. I'm saying that lying is just part of the politically-correct script, which is allowed in the political role they're playing. When you tell your children that they must go to sleep, or Santa won't leave them any presents, ARE YOU LYING TO THEM??

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

Wrong! I’m someone who learnt my language well and becomes irritated by those who abuse it…

Is English your second language? And, since you used the word "learnt", instead of "learned", you must live outside of the US and Canada? Do you really think that this is a creative writing forum? Is proper syntax now a requirement for the free expression of an opinion?

 

[chris155au]

Again, I don't think that you understand what I am saying. I'm not saying that employees should seek legal actions, based on discrimination. That would not be a viable legal option. The government has exploited the wordings in the Federal Discrimination act, to avoid any legal liabilities(like Pfizer does). However, the people can save their jobs, by also exploiting the Federal Discrimination Act. If they have a medical condition(physical or emotional), that can be aggravated by injecting this poison into them, they can be exempt from being fired from their jobs.

Oh sure, if they were able to get a medical exemption they would be fine, but my understanding is that a medical exemption is next to impossible to get.

Since the Health Act does not actually order the involuntary vaccination of anyone, pretty much all other forms of social discrimination are okay.

Other forms of social discrimination are okay such as what?

I agree that some employers are choosing to ignore this government's overreach into their affairs.

Actually, I hadn't heard about any. Can you name any examples? I imagine that they would have been charged with some sort of offense.

I think that teachers and some construction workers were also on the mandatory vaccine list.

Business rules for NSW

Rules and restrictions for Greater Sydney including the Blue Mountains and Wollongong.

www.nsw.gov.au

Well you surely don't think that educational institutions and construction businesses in NSW are the only workplaces which have a vaccine mandate for workers, do you?

 

[chris155au]

Wrong! I’m someone who learnt my language well and becomes irritated by those who abuse it…

You go enjoy your grammar policing!

 

[chris155au]

Is English your second language? And, since you used the word "learnt", instead of "learned", you must live outside of the US and Canada? Do you really think that this is a creative writing forum? Is proper syntax now a requirement for the free expression of an opinion?

WELL SAID!

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

Well you surely don't think that educational institutions and construction businesses in NSW are the only workplaces which have a vaccine mandate for workers, do you?

You were the one who stated that the only industry in NSW's that you knew targeted with mandatory vaccines, was the Healthcare Industry. I simply provided evidence that the Teachers and Construction Industries were also on that list. Even BHP has tried to mandate its workers to be vaccinated or be sacked. Their actions was deemed unlawful.

'Arrogant' BHP lashed by union after losing mine vaccine mandate fight over failure to consult workers

The full bench of the Fair Work Commission has found a decision by mining giant BHP to make COVID-19 vaccinations at a Hunter Valley mine mandatory was not lawful or reasonable.

www.abc.net.au

So why are you characterizing this information as being, "the only workplaces which have a vaccine mandate for workers.."? You are just changing the goal posts. I never said that these industries WERE the only vaccine-mandated targeted industries. But no, I don't think they are.

Actually, I hadn't heard about any. Can you name any examples? I imagine that they would have been charged with some sort of offense.

Of course not! Australia is now a fascist country. What do you think would happen if I named all the businesses that actually see through all the hype, half-truths, and fear-mongering? People who actually want to help people, not to fuck 'em. I don't think that it will takes much imagination to understand why they may not want to advertise this fact.

Other forms of social discrimination are okay such as what?

Again, taken out of context. The point I was making was, that unless the government's goon-squad breaks in your door, ties your family up, and forcibly stick the vaccine into their arms, all other discrimination based on being unvaccinated(banned from businesses and venues, sacked from your job, provide Covid -19 papers, etc.) is okay. Obviously, NO FORM OF DISCRIMINATION SHOULD BE OKAY!

Oh sure, if they were able to get a medical exemption they would be fine, but my understanding is that a medical exemption is next to impossible to get.

Totally agree! And this alone should raise a lot of red flags. There are only 3 criteria for vaccine exemption. One, requires that you actually HAVE an adverse reaction to any of the three vaccines. But you must then try the others and also have an adverse reaction??? Remember all of these vaccines are genetic based! Insane!!!

Second, you must already have the disease. In this case you must wait until you've recovered and then receive the vaccines?? I mean a 3 month old vaccine is now more viable than the billions of years, to evolve the human immune system. The same immune system that now already carries the antibodies for the SARS-CoV-2. Insane!

Finally, If you are already chronically ill, immuno-compromised, or are on immunosuppressant drugs, you are exempt. Because no vaccine is going to help you anyway.

This means that the only people that can be exempt from these vaccines, are people who are already infected, are already dying, or are already sick from having been vaccinated. There is only one conclusion here. Every human on the planet must be vaccinated. No matter what. If this doesn't raise any red flags, then you are the definition of sheeples!! And, deserve the poison you get.

COVID-19 vaccination exemptions: what’s the criteria? | Medical Council of New South Wales

For the fully vaccinated, life in NSW is – thankfully – returning to some sort of new normality. But for those who are hesitant or opposed to vaccination and haven’t yet had a double dose, many restrictions will still apply.

www.mcnsw.org.au

Look, at some point you must also contribute your own information. A conversation is just not one-sided.

 

[chris155au]

You were the one who stated that the only industry in NSW's that you knew targeted with mandatory vaccines, was the Healthcare Industry. I simply provided evidence that the Teachers and Construction Industries were also on that list.

Actually, it turns out the construction is not on the list. See below.

Vaccination requirements for workers

Some workers are required to have a COVID-19 vaccination to go to work. Check the rules below.

www.nsw.gov.au

Well you surely don't think that educational institutions and construction businesses in NSW are the only workplaces which have a vaccine mandate for workers, do you?

So why are you characterizing this information as being, "the only workplaces which have a vaccine mandate for workers.."?

I certainly wasn't saying that educational institutions and construction businesses in NSW are the only workplaces which have a vaccine mandate for workers, but I thought that you may have been under that impression. I thought that you were saying that the only workplaces that have vaccine mandates are the ones which have been required by government to adopt them.

Of course not! Australia is now a fascist country. What do you think would happen if I named all the businesses that actually see through all the hype, half-truths, and fear-mongering? People who actually want to help people, not to fuck 'em. I don't think that it will takes much imagination to understand why they may not want to advertise this fact.

So they're not public, but you DO know of some businesses which are ignoring government vaccine mandates?

The point I was making was, that unless the government's goon-squad breaks in your door, ties your family up, and forcibly stick the vaccine into their arms, all other discrimination based on being unvaccinated(banned from businesses and venues, sacked from your job, provide Covid -19 papers, etc.) is okay. Obviously, NO FORM OF DISCRIMINATION SHOULD BE OKAY!

I agree. Although, you and I might argue that there's no meaningful distinction between forcibly sticking the vaccine into people's arms and saying that people can't enter anywhere other than the supermarket unless they are vaccinated, and cannot work unless they are vaccinated, which then inevitably basically forces people to get vaccinated when they otherwise would not have, simply because they want the freedom which they can only have if they are vaccinated. The difference is that forcibly sticking the vaccine into people's arms would just be a more aggressive, and overt use of government power. But is there a meaningful distinction? Perhaps not.

Look, at some point you must also contribute your own information.

What information?

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

Actually, it turns out the construction is not on the list. See below.

Again you are only telling part of the truth. If you are a construction worker, who lives in the 12 Covid-19 areas of concern, then you must follow the vaccine mandates, in order to work at any construction site in the greater Sydney area. Here is the update.

NSW COVID-19 UPDATE: NSW health directions for construction work confirmed - Real Estate and Construction - Australia

Recently published Construction Rules and Restrictions provide relief & transparency for those in the construction industry.

www.mondaq.com

I certainly wasn't saying that educational institutions and construction businesses in NSW are the only workplaces which have a vaccine mandate for workers, but I thought that you may have been under that impression. I thought that you were saying that the only workplaces that have vaccine mandates are the ones which have been required by government to adopt them.

It's just in the way you frame your questions. I'm not going to go into why your questions assumes the answer within the question(presumptive). But, yes, I AM saying, "..that the only workplaces that have vaccine mandates, are the ones which have been required by government to adopt them.". What company, business, or industry require proof of a vaccination, as part of its business profile? Or, as a requirement for continued employment? These businesses are being forced to adopt these government mandates. Did these mandates exist 3 years ago??

I agree. Although, you and I might argue that there's no meaningful distinction between forcibly sticking the vaccine into people's arms and saying that people can't enter anywhere other than the supermarket unless they are vaccinated, and cannot work unless they are vaccinated, which then inevitably basically forces people to get vaccinated when they otherwise would not have, simply because they want the freedom which they can only have if they are vaccinated. The difference is that forcibly sticking the vaccine into people's arms would just be a more aggressive, and overt use of government power. But is there a meaningful distinction? Perhaps not.

Totally agree. One is direct government assault by proxy, and the other is direct coercion by discrimination. They both force you to stick a totally unnecessary poison into your arm. Australia is in the hands of children with a taste of power. Even the rest of the world is praying and demonstrating for our freedoms.

What information?

What exactly is your position on the efficacy of lockdowns, vaccines, mandates, and the seriousness of this flu? Are we in a viral apocalypse?

So they're not public, but you DO know of some businesses which are ignoring government vaccine mandates?

Yes they are, and yes I do.

 

[chris155au]

But, yes, I AM saying, "..that the only workplaces that have vaccine mandates, are the ones which have been required by government to adopt them.". What company, business, or industry require proof of a vaccination, as part of its business profile? Or, as a requirement for continued employment?

Unbelievable! Just a few posts ago you cited the example of BHP, which attempted to implement a vaccine mandate, but it was struck down by the Fair Work Commission! What the hell did that have to do with a government vaccine mandate?

What exactly is your position on the efficacy of lockdowns, vaccines, mandates, and the seriousness of this flu? Are we in a viral apocalypse?

Lockdowns? Likely very important in protecting the hospitals from being overwhelmed, but obviously not a long term solution. Only ever justified in a State before it reached 80% vaccination and will never be justified again, as per the 'National Plan.' Vaccines? Better to be vaccinated than not for people over 20 and I myself am vaccinated. Vaccine mandates? Totally against them. The seriousness of COVID? No longer serious to someone who is vaccinated, but was very serious for people of a certain age and people with certain pre-existing conditions. Some young people died, even those with no known pre-existing conditions, but these people also routintely die on the road among other forms of death. Are we in a viral apocalypse? Most definitely not!

Yes they are, and yes I do.

So these businesses which you refer which are ignoring government vaccine mandates ARE public? That's why I asked if you could give an example, because I'm not aware of them.

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

Unbelievable! Just a few posts ago you cited the example of BHP, which attempted to implement a vaccine mandate, but it was struck down by the Fair Work Commission! What the hell did that have to do with a government vaccine mandate?

Again, you just keep changing the goal posts. And off on another tangent. Let me just say my reasons for not being vaccinated. And you can manipulate my comments anyway you want.

Vaccines DO NOT provide immunity to any other viral infections
Vaccines DO NOT provide immunity to any Covid-19 variant
Vaccines DO NOT eliminate the virus
Vaccines DO NOT prevent deaths
Vaccines DO NOT prevent hospitalization
Vaccines DO NOT guarantee that you won't get it
Vaccines DO NOT stop you from passing it on to others
Vaccines DO NOT eliminate mask-wearing and social distancing
Vaccines DO NOT eliminate the need for travel bans
Vaccines DO NOT eliminate the need for business closures
Vaccines DO NOT eliminate the need for lockdowns
Vaccines DO NOT allow for businesses to return to normal
Vaccines DO NOT make me resistant to Covid-19
Vaccines DO NOT guarantee that the vaccine itself won't kill you

And, if you have been vaccinated, and get sick or die, the company and government cannot be made liable for any compensations. So, on a risk-benefit assessment alone, WHY THE FUCK WOULD I EVEN THINK ABOUT BEING VACCINATED??? Let alone being forced to!

Lockdowns? Likely very important in protecting the hospitals from being overwhelmed, but obviously not a long term solution. Only ever justified in a State before it reached 80% vaccination and will never be justified again, as per the 'National Plan.' Vaccines? Better to be vaccinated than not for people over 20 and I myself am vaccinated. Vaccine mandates? Totally against them. The seriousness of COVID? No longer serious to someone who is vaccinated, but was very serious for people of a certain age and people with certain pre-existing conditions. Some young people died, even those with no known pre-existing conditions, but these people also routintely die on the road among other forms of death. Are we in a viral apocalypse? Most definitely not!

Thank you

So these businesses which you refer which are ignoring government vaccine mandates ARE public? That's why I asked if you could give an example, because I'm not aware of them.

Understood. Whether you are aware of them is irrelevant.

 

[johnsmith]

Vaccines DO NOT prevent deaths
Vaccines DO NOT prevent hospitalization

bullshit

 

[HBS Guy]

Yes, hopeless bullshit from vaccine delayers.

Delta worse than original COVID
Omicron worse than delta

Still those afraid of a needle pretend COVID is just the sniffles and the immune system is all you need etc.

FFS get the double jab then the booster.

 

[chris155au]

Omicron worse than delta

Worse in what? Transmissibility?

FFS get the double jab then the booster.

And then another booster and another booster?