Why should people be forced to get vaccinated in order to protect others who choose not to get vaccinated??

[Shellandshilo1956]

Short, concise sentences broken up into easy to read paragraphs is a far cry from pages of walls of text.

All saying the same thing, mind you. Over and over again.

And nothing is worth hysterics.

See? Short post and i actually addressed your points. That's how it works.

Rubbish! How this works is, I make a number of points, state a number of true premises, and use facts/evidence to support the logic of my conclusions. Your job is to point out WHY my facts and evidence are wrong, or WHY my conclusion is wrong. And to provide the evidence/facts to support your own claims. Instead, its just more of the same personal and ad hominin attacks, threats, or silly attacks on my syntax or length of posts. This is only how it works for people who have zero arguments, and absolutely nothing to say.

Since your attention span is so short, I will try to keep this post short.

I mean, i'm still chuckling over your claim that no virus wants to kill it's host.

My comment in its proper context was, that it is NOT the virus that kills anyone. It is our immune system(response) that kills people. NOT this virus doesn't WANT to kill its host misrepresentation. Viruses don't think or make decisions. Any 1st year bio student knows this. Even the media is now saying that people die FROM THE COMPLICATIONS OF THE VIRUS? This means that they are dying from their own immune responses. NOT directly from the virus?? Show me even ONE person who has died, because any virus has lysed every cell in their body(37.2T cells)? This would be impossible!! Even if a million cells a day were lysed, it would take over 100K years to lyse all the cells in the human body.

If this were not a fact, viruses would continue to replicate and mutate, until every living species on the planet was completely wiped out. There is a balance here. To destroy just enough healthy tissues/cells to kill the virus, and not to kill the host. But I guess it's just easier to chuckle at the truth, to hide your intellectually laziness and shallow depth of knowledge. But I should expect nothing less from anyone who thinks that squeezing balls during childbirth is something interesting.

i actually addressed your points.

No you haven't! And since you are actively encouraging Australians to discriminate against other Australians, here are more experts for you to ignore and dismiss. We must all do what we are told, during "these troubled times", right? From my e-mail,

"Robert Malone inventor of the mRNA vaccine said people who are vaccinated will produce more variants which in turn will render the vaccines ineffective and the time between new vaccines could get shorter and shorter The vaccines will fail then people will chase the pollies and the cops

Len Allen
WORLD HEALTH ANNOUNCEMENT

Len Allen
All Vaxxinated People Must Quarantine Over the Winter Months or Risk Serious Illness!!

By Staff Reporter
World Health Organization European Advisory Group of Experts in Immunization former Vice President Professor Christian Perronne yesterday said that all vaccinated people must quarantine over the winter months or risk serious illness

This interview comes from U.K column news:
Perronne specializes in tropical pathologies and emerging infectious diseases. He was Chairman of the Specialized Committee on Communicable Diseases of the High Council of Public Health.

Confirming the rapidly deteriorating situation in Israel and the UK, the infectious disease expert stated: “Vaccinated people should be put in quarantine, and should be isolated from the society.”

He went on to say: “Unvaccinated people are not dangerous; vaccinated people are dangerous for others. It’s proven in Israel now – I’m in contact with many physicians in Israel – they’re having big problems, severe cases in the hospitals are among vaccinated people, and in UK also, you have the larger vaccination program and also there are problems.”

The current working group on the COVID-19 pandemic in France was reported to be “utterly panicked” on receipt of the news, fearing pandemonium if it follows the guidance of the experts.

Israeli doctor Kobi Haviv told Channel 13 News: “95% of seriously ill patients are vaccinated. Fully vaccinated people account for 85-90% of hospitalizations. We are opening more and more COVID branches. The effectiveness of vaccines is declining or disappearing.”

· Reply · 1 h

Michelle Brown
Thank you for sharing this I will be sharing to my non sheeple friends. The light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter.

· Reply · 37 m

Rita Coenradi
Len Allen Applause for telling the real story. Hoping that this news will go viral and people will see the truth. Thank you"

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

I think the data speaks for itself on that.

What was this specific data, that you are referring to. I also think that this depends on what data you choose to use. I choose to use basic common sense, and data that includes some context as well. Not just the headlines first, and data without context. I guess simple minds can only process simple things.

How The Definition of "Fully Vaccinated" Misleads People on COVID-19 Vaccine Safety & Efficacy: An Explanation For CNN's Drew Griffin

Received one dose only? You're Unvaccinated. Two doses? Wait another 14 days. If you survive, congratulations. You're fully vaccinated.

popularrationalism.substack.com

Does the media report about how vaccines increase the risk of myocarditis and pericarditis? Or the risk from other variant viruses(see post #321)? Of course not. Their goal is to vaccinate every man woman, child and pet. And, bugger the consequences. They can always spin whatever yarn they want to the ignorant sheep. They can tell the sheep, that vaccines will give them full immunity to a virus, or will protect/prevent them from from dying from the virus, and the sheep will believe them.

Please vote these idiots out. Their medical overreach has escalated beyond any sense of proportion. It is in these times of crises, that have defined just how idiotic these leader truly are. They are behaving just like children.

 

[chris155au]

They can tell the sheep, that vaccines will give them full immunity to a virus, or will protect/prevent them from from dying from the virus, and the sheep will believe them.

Is anyone saying that the vaccines will guarantee protection from dying from the virus?

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

Is anyone saying that the vaccines will guarantee protection from dying from the virus?

Firstly, no one has mentioned the word, "guarantee" in describing protection/prevention from dying from this virus. That is just a "red herring.".

Secondly, my comment was only a hypothetical. Based on the inference, that being vaccinated reduces your risk of dying from this virus. Therefore, the more people that are vaccinated, the less number of people will risk dying from this virus. Even you know that nothing in reality is ever guaranteed. Except death.

 

[johnsmith]

I think even less about you. And, the only stupidity here, are your mindless arguments from ignorance.

I don't give a shit what you think about me. Your arguments are crap based on hysteria based on more crap, based on even more hysteria. Pages and pages of it all basically repeating the same thing over and over. I've got bad news for you fool, you're wrong. The numbers prove you are wrong so move on and find another tune to play

 

[johnsmith]

Is anyone saying that the vaccines will guarantee protection from dying from the virus?

he makes up what 'others say' just so that he can write another 50 page essay on why they are wrong.

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

I don't give a shit what you think about me. Your arguments are crap based on hysteria based on more crap, based on even more hysteria. Pages and pages of it all basically repeating the same thing over and over. I've got bad news for you fool, you're wrong. The numbers prove you are wrong so move on and find another tune to play

You have no idea how strong a ditto that is from me. Not only do you have nothing original to contribute on any topic(most topics), but now you are an opportunist as well.

Since you never answer my questions, never address any of my points, or never explain specifically WHY my comments are wrong. I have no idea what the crap is you are talking about is. If you don't agree with me then simply explain why. You never do. You simply avoid, deflect, misrepresent, insult, or just say it's so because you say its so. You are the sad riddle-man. That can only argue by using riddles, insults, and denials. That's it!

Okay riddle man, riddle me this,

What is the one thing that unvaccinated and vaccinated people have in common(other than just being human)??

What is the one thing that asymptomatic and symptomatic people have in common??

Hint, both answers are the same.

he makes up what 'others say' just so that he can write another 50 page essay on why they are wrong.

I would gladly claim that you are wrong. But you never maintain an argument long enough for me to make that claim. All I do is keep defending my own claims. And my own facts.

You are just a sad insecure troll, that should only be ignored and pitied. And, if you really think all this of me, then please, I promise that I will not be offended if I never hear from you again.

 

[greggerypeccary]

Do they teach science in the US?

 

[johnsmith]

more blah blah blah from shell

The facts are Australia, with a population of approx 25 million, and with tight restrictions and it's push to vaccinate, has had about 1200 deaths from covid since March last year

Florida, with a population of 21.5million, very few restrictions and low vax numbers, has had over 54 000 deaths.

everything else from shell is just shell pissing in the wind

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

I don't know why anyone bothers with Shell.

The facts are Australia, with a population of approx 25 million, and with tight restrictions and it's push to vaccinate, has had about 1200 deaths from covid since March last year

Florida, with a population of 21.5million, very few restrictions and low vax numbers, has had over 54 000 deaths.


everything else is just blah blah blah by Shell, white noise to hide his stupidity

Well of course John, what could be more simple to understand. 1,200 deaths in Australia, from a population of 26M, and 54K deaths from a state with a population of 21.5M people. This obviously can only mean that lockdown protocols is the only reason why there is such a difference. There clearly can't be any other explanation, right?

Lets just ignore the density of the state. I mean if we took 21.5M Australians and put them in an area, that is 2.5 times the area of Tasmania? Doesn't matter, right?

Lets ignore that over 50% of the state is over 45 years old. Doesn't matter, right?

Lets just ignore weather, climate, seasonal variances, geography, or a host of behavioral and environmental factors. This is the only explanation possible, right? Because they say so, and it probably makes you feel better than them. The government truly knows what buttons to push.

Sit. Stay. Good Boy.

 

[greggerypeccary]

Well of course John, what could be more simple to understand. 1,200 deaths in Australia, from a population of 26M, and 54K deaths from a state with a population of 21.5M people. This obviously can only mean that lockdown protocols is the only reason why there is such a difference. There clearly can't be any other explanation, right?

Lets just ignore the density of the state. I mean if we took 21.5M Australians and put them in an area, that is 2.5 times the area of Tasmania? Doesn't matter, right?

Lets ignore that over 50% of the state is over 45 years old. Doesn't matter, right?

Lets just ignore weather, climate, seasonal variances, geography, or a host of behavioral and environmental factors. This is the only explanation possible, right? Because they say so, and it probably makes you feel better than them. The government truly knows what buttons to push.

Sit. Stay. Good Boy.

You're ignoring the fact that Florida has a totally insane Governor who doesn't take COVID seriously.

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

You're ignoring the fact that Florida has a totally insane Governor who doesn't take COVID seriously.

That is not a fact. I'm sure that the governor is concerned about the health of his citizens. What exactly do you expect the Governor to do about stopping the 0.2% of the population from dying? Place every citizen under quarantine? Force every citizen, children and pets, to stick a needle in their arm? Maybe he should force every citizen to wear self-contained hazmat suits? Should he close down all sporting/entertainment centers? Should he close down businesses, restaurants, churches, parks and beaches, schools, and community gatherings? The flu virus is infinitely more important than the happiness/liberties of the people, right??

Would you then consider him taking Covid-19 seriously? The more lives he ruins, the more you love him. Then you must really be happy here in Australia.

I think that the Governor is more concerned with not turning his state into a Fascist State, and suspending the basic rights/liberties of all people. And then forcing people to comply, by criminalizing things that normally would never be considered a criminal act. I think that the Governor is not so easily influenced by the media hype, and the fear-mongering. And, actually knows what are practical responses, and what are impractical responses. Not like the leaders here in Australia. IMHO

 

[greggerypeccary]

That is not a fact. I'm sure that the governor is concerned about the health of his citizens.

He's only concerned about himself, and power.

If he was concerned about the citizens of Florida he wouldn't be killing them.

He's a sociopath, pure and simple.

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

He's only concerned about himself, and power.

Oh, I certainly agree that all politicians care about money and power. But, how do you know that he doesn't give a shit about the people dying from this virus? Or is the number of deaths the only causal determinant of his motive? Maybe, like any rational thinking person who will soon realize, that there is not a damn thing that you can do to stop the spread of any viral pathogen(maybe exterminate all bats). Other than what we have been doing for the last 60 years of flus and colds.

If he was concerned about the citizens of Florida he wouldn't be killing them.

Do you really think that the deaths of people from Covid-19, is directly caused by the actions/inactions of one man? If you're silly enough to blame one man for causing the deaths of thousands, then you must also blame that one man for the recoveries of millions, right?? I mean we must be fair and consistent, and not blindly biased, right?

He's a sociopath, pure and simple.

I won't ask you what his psychopathy is, because you clearly don't have a clue. I commend his resolve, for not being caught up in this media manufactured viral hysterics. Maybe he has decided that the lives and freedoms of people, are far more important than any media-induced fear of this 0.005% lethal virus in the population.

And, since you've ignored, or refused to answer my questions, I don't think that it is him who is sociopathic, or in denial. These questions are designed to expose just how silly these arguments really are. This is why people like you will never answer them. You don't want others to see just how silly your comments really are. You are simply being told what to think, how to behave, and you do it without question. You don't even bother to find out if what you are being told is true or not. You don't even care about other perspectives. What is sad, is that you will believe whatever these actors tell you, IN SPITE OF THE EVIDENCE.

Maybe we should start closing down large food chains, because there are still 13 active cases of Covid-19 in Queensland. Or better yet, lets keep the other millions in lockdown, because there could be millions of cases that we don't know about. Insane!!

You sound like a creationist speaking at a science symposium.

Sit. Stay. Good Boy.

 

[johnsmith]

Lets ignore that over 50% of the state is over 45 years old

and over 40% of Australians are 45 and over .So enough difference to account for a 60x death rate

Lets just ignore weather

Florida's weather is closest to Qld ... hot and sunny for the most of the year. The LEAST ideal conditions for Covid to thrive. If you look at weather alone, Florida's numbers should be amongst the lowest in the state.

Lets just ignore the density of the state

no one's ignoring anything. No one said the lock downs are the ONLY reason for the difference. It is YOU who is ignoring the effects of lock down claiming they do nothing, trying to attribute any difference to everything but the lock down measure. If Florida is more dese they should have stricter lockdowns, not less.


Sit. Drool. Rant

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

no one's ignoring anything. No one said the lock downs are the ONLY reason for the difference. It is YOU who is ignoring the effects of lock down claiming they do nothing, trying to attribute any difference to everything but the lock down measure. If Florida is more dese they should have stricter lockdowns, not less.

Bullshit dumb-dumb. To have an effect, you need a cause. Not a series of stupid self-serving assumptions, using data taken out of context, to support your self-serving narrative. For example,

Keeping 26M people 2 meters apart all the time is impossible. Maybe it could reduce the spread, or maybe it couldn't. But only a moron would think that keeping millions people apart could ever be a practical solution to this complicated problem. So, NOT a causal link factor directly support by this assumption.

Maybe masks can provide some protection from spreading or from being infected by this virus? But, what we do know is, that the pore sizes on masks are too big to stop any virus. That the highest group infected are healthcare and medical workers, who also wear the best masks. That masks are not perfect fits. So the wearers can breath in the virus, or exhale the virus out the sides of the mask and into the air. So again, NOT a causal link factor that directly supports this assumption. In fact staying in bed, covering your mouth and nose when you cough or sneeze, could also achieve the same results.

My beef is not about any of the suggested methods that this nanny government feels is necessary for its children to follow. My beef is when these nannies, decide to make their advice and suggestions mandatory and punitive. When their policies become inciteful, divisive, discriminative, and stigmatizing. Forcing people to comply is my beef! I didn't raise my kids to become mindless government pawns, who are unable to think for themselves.

Florida's weather is closest to Qld ... hot and sunny for the most of the year. The LEAST ideal conditions for Covid to thrive. If you look at weather alone, Florida's numbers should be amongst the lowest in the state.

Although I have no idea if this is true, but lets assume that it is. If Florida's weather is like Queensland's, then it would be seasonal as well, right? Therefore, the temperature would fluctuate throughout the year. Now lets assume that the entire population of Florida all live on the beaches throughout the entire year(eat, shit, sleep, and mate there), then that would mean that during the summer and winter periods, there would be a clear difference in infection rates. In 2 years this difference should have been repeated twice, right? Is this what we are seeing? Of course not! What we are seeing, is a cumulative climb in infections and deaths?

In the real world most people live in temperature-control environments. This is why weather and temperature are only 2 of the factors. There are many more. Not simply "lockdowns", and more "stricter lockdowns".

and over 40% of Australians are 45 and over .So enough difference to account for a 60x death rate

Lets assume that your facts are true. If they are, than 9M people in Florida are over 45 years old. And over 10M people in Australia are over 45 years old. Now lets ignore how many people over 45 are actually infected, have died, or have recovered. Lets ignore if the cities are located in the valleys, in the mountains, in the marshlands, in unincorporated or incorporated areas, or are close to medical facilities. Doesn't matter! Right?

So if we just took the population densities(138 vs 3)only into account, and placed 22M Australians in area the size of 2.5 Tasmania(171K km2), would you expect less deaths from those over 45, or more deaths?? Is density a possible explanation for the death toll among those over 45 in Florida, when compared to Australia? Especially since over 85% of deaths, are from victims over 45. Or, do you believe that the only relevant variable is "lockdowns", or just more "stricter lockdowns"? Is this the only determining factor for you?

You should really analyze Sweden. They don't have any mandatory lockdowns. But since you can never see past the number of deaths, the number of restrictions, and the number of infected, don't bother.

Here's another question for you to ignore John. Since viruses will be here forever, and people will continue to be infected by viruses forever, shall we maintain lockdowns, travel restriction, virus ID's, locator apps, business shutdowns, and mandatory vaccinations indefinitely? Facial recognition was instilled in humans by evolution. We are now taking a step backwards in evolution, by becoming a nation full of people wearing masks. Literally! I wonder what babies and young children must be thinking? That being an adult, means covering your face, and sticking needles in your arm. Is this the new norm?

I was watching WWE Summer Slam. I felt like I was on another planet seeing over 50K fans all wearing masks. It reminded me of pictures of the soldiers in N. Korea. Sad!

 

[greggerypeccary]

"I was watching WWE Summer Slam."

Ah. That explains a lot.

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

"I was watching WWE Summer Slam."

Ah. That explains a lot.

It certainly does, if this is the only thing that you can respond to!! What, you're not a member of the WWE Universe?? I watch it to reduce spreading the virus.

Hopefully your attention span is longer than 11 minutes.

 

[greggerypeccary]

It certainly does, if this is the only thing that you can respond to!! What, you're not a member of the WWE Universe?? I watch it to reduce spreading the virus.

Hopefully your attention span is longer than 11 minutes.

I was going to respond to everything in your post, until I got to that last paragraph.

 

[johnsmith]

To have an effect, you need a cause.

so what caused you to go full retard?

Keeping 26M people 2 meters apart all the time is impossible.

what was it you said about ASSUMPTIONS

But only a moron would think that keeping millions people apart could ever be a practical solution to this complicated problem.

ahh, so now you want to move goal posts so as to give your argument credibility.

No one said keeping people apart is the most practical choice. But if it means the difference between people dying and people living, then practicality be damned.

If Florida's weather is like Queensland's, then it would be seasonal as well, right?

Why Qld isn't very seasonal. We have hot, hot and warm. And I'm in the south of the state ... go further north and it's just HOT

In the real world most people live in temperature-control environments

rubbish.

You should really analyze Sweden.

ten million people and 15 000 deaths. And in winter it gets so cold most people don't leave the house except for necessities. I'm afraid Sweden's not going to help you.