NSW is reporting the number of people who died "WITH" COVID. Is this a mistake?

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mothra

Administrator
Staff member
Still saying absolutely nothing. But implying absolutely everything. I back-up the knowledge I contribute. What exactly do you do? Other than trolling and snarking?

No, it is a closed mind that is a dangerous thing.

You back up nothing. You spew falsehoods and misinformation and have actually convinced yourself that it the results of higher learning. Just, quite frankly, astonishingly.

As i said in one of the other threads you;ve polluted with your nonsense, you're simply not worth trying to reason with. You're a fanatic.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
If someone has health issues, but modern health care allows them to sustain life, but they get Covid, and it is the straw that breaks the camel's back, and they die ...

Or, if someone in good health gets Covid, but there immune system underreacts or overreacts, and they die ...

Shall we say they died "with" Covid or "from" Covid?

What difference does it make???

By any measure, this is a more dangerous bug than the flu. More people die with or from this disease than from the flu.

If you shoot someone in the heart, the heart will stop beating and pumping blood, and that person will die. So did they die of a gunshot wound, or did they die from heart failure? Or shall we say that they died from heart failure but with a gunshot wound?

Of course, the question is absurd.
 

chris155au

Active member
If someone has health issues, but modern health care allows them to sustain life, but they get Covid, and it is the straw that breaks the camel's back, and they die ...

Or, if someone in good health gets Covid, but there immune system underreacts or overreacts, and they die ...

Shall we say they died "with" Covid or "from" Covid?

What difference does it make???

By any measure, this is a more dangerous bug than the flu. More people die with or from this disease than from the flu.

If you shoot someone in the heart, the heart will stop beating and pumping blood, and that person will die. So did they die of a gunshot wound, or did they die from heart failure? Or shall we say that they died from heart failure but with a gunshot wound?

Of course, the question is absurd.
If they get shot and then die in the ambulance from a road accident on the way to the hospital, they died WITH a gunshot, right?
 

chris155au

Active member
This is actually a true and honest observation. ALL deaths from viral infections are caused by our immune response. And, if that response is aggravated BY(not aggravates) other comorbidities, then you are unlikely to survive. Especially with 4-5 other comorbidities. For patients with idiopathic, or unknown comorbidities, they are the rare exceptions to the rule. NOT THE RULE! Just because you don't know the cause of something, doesn't mean that something doesn't have a cause(argument from ignorance). Some causes are found later after an autopsy. These causes may include, an underactive or overactive immune response. Or, an opportunistic pathogen. Or, an unknown, or unrelated health issue. So, if a healthy 20yo premier athlete suddenly dies from this virus, then that should be treated as a suspicious death.
Do you think that an underactive or overactive immune system would be considered to be a "pre-existing condition?"

It was hyperbole! Your ego will survive! It was based on your remarks, implying that you only see people dying FROM COVID, and not dying WITH COVID.
No, I was just agreeing with @stunspore that COVID making existing medical conditions worst is a direct enough cause for me to say that the person died FROM COVID. As in, if it had not been for COVID, the person would have survived even with the comorbidities.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Do you think that an underactive or overactive immune system would be considered to be a "pre-existing condition?"
No! It is a genetic predisposition of the body, not a mal-condition. In other words, it came with the body!

No, I was just agreeing with @stunspore that COVID making existing medical conditions worst is a direct enough cause for me to say that the person died FROM COVID. As in, if it had not been for COVID, the person would have survived even with the comorbidities.
Again, you are just making an argument from ignorance. You have no idea if anyone with comorbidities would have died directly because of COVID, or with it? And, based on the 99% survival rate, the opposite seems to be true. That people die from their other illnesses, than from the virus. You are just trying to make something true, that just isn't!

But you are entitle to your opinion.
 

chris155au

Active member
No! It is a genetic predisposition of the body, not a mal-condition. In other words, it came with the body!
Yeah okay. So then the 20 year olds with no pre-existing conditions who have died from COVID likely had immune system problems. Nothing else would explain it with what we know about medical science.

Again, you are just making an argument from ignorance. You have no idea if anyone with comorbidities would have died directly because of COVID, or with it? And, based on the 99% survival rate, the opposite seems to be true. That people die from their other illnesses, than from the virus. You are just trying to make something true, that just isn't!
Does this mean that we can't know if someone dies from cancer if they have comorbidities?
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Yeah okay. So then the 20 year olds with no pre-existing conditions who have died from COVID likely had immune system problems. Nothing else would explain it with what we know about medical science.
What it means, that if a healthy 20yo dies from this flu-like virus, IT WON'T BE BECAUSE OF THE VIRUS! And, they would definitely have had an immune problem. You have no idea what we know about medical science. So, please don't argue from ignorance. He may have had some idiopathic underlying illness, that was unknown at the time. He may have overdosed on drugs, thinking he was going to die. He may have had an autoimmune response to the vaccine, or the illness. I have no idea. But I do know that it was NOT the virus that killed him!

The point is, if a healthy 20yo requires to be ventilated, then this should prompt an extensive investigation into why.

Does this mean that we can't know if someone dies from cancer if they have comorbidities?
Of course we know if a person dies from cancer. We can even predict when and why. Why would you ask this question? Do you even know what a cancer is, or what it does?
 

stunspore

Member
That one an odd character. But they are the ones that get into conspiracy stuff like qnon. And vote for oddballs like Craig Kelly and George Christensen.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Did Shell get infected with COVID? Been away for a while.
Thank you for your token concerns. But no! Just like the over 25M other Australians, I was not, and have never been infected with Covid-19. I am just tired of listening to gullible vaccine junkies raving about what good guinea pigs they are, and when will they be allowed to have their next Covid fix. I am tired of responding to the same self-righteous media junkies, whose ignorance is defined only by how much half-truths they can suck-up through their flavor-straw. But censoring my comments, by closing down 2 threads, only mirrors what the government does to people who also don't agree with them. Since you have always had the option to not respond to my posts, or to explain WHY you disagree with me, this forum clearly does NOT allow for dissenting opinions. It only allows for the accepted opinions of the few, OR ELSE!!

You are all supposedly Australians. And you have allowed the government to force/mandate, that people be discriminate against, and to dob-in their neighbors. You have allowed the Government to force/mandate, that people must choose between a jab(s), or their jobs. You have allowed the government to force/mandate that all Australians must carry Covid identity cards, and produce it when requested. You have allowed the government, to force/mandate that people must stick whatever they are told into their arm, OR ELSE! You have allowed the government to force/mandate that even 5yo be vaccinated with this poison. A vaccine that we don't even know everything that is in it! Unlike we know about all other vaccines! Now the government is waiting for approval by the pest control industry and vets, to allow pets to be vaccinated. And, still no red flags from the sheeples! Any conspiracies so far??

There is nothing that I have said, that is a fucking conspiracy theory. It is all happening in real time, and in front of your own eyes. And, if you think that it is a conspiracy, then you should be able to state what the conspiracy is, and should be able to de-bunk it!! Right?? We can easily do this with the flat-earth, Evolution, and the moon-landing conspiracies! No, it is not a conspiracy theory, it is a political agenda! The conspiracy theory is just the default position for the ignorant, whenever they encounter a cognitive dissonance.

Oh, at the risk of another conspiracy theory, I guarantee that someone is making a lot of bucks with this new product!!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
That one an odd character. But they are the ones that get into conspiracy stuff like qnon. And vote for oddballs like Craig Kelly and George Christensen.
Does it even matter to you if these oddballs are right? Or, are they always wrong, on all issues, simple because of their name?? What exactly are their oddball conspiracy theories?
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho πŸ’‰πŸ’‰
Staff member
The oddballs are not right. Unvaxxed people die from COVID much more than vaxxed people.
 

stunspore

Member
The problem with people who have fallen into conspiracy rabbit hole, i.e. shell, is that they don't want to climb out of it. Being a citizen in any country is about following the rule of law, especially when it helps everyone else. Clearly Shell is advocating to be a hermit of own sovereign country.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
The oddballs are not right. Unvaxxed people die from COVID much more than vaxxed people.
Why do you keep telling yourself this lie? Even your own common sense should be telling you, that if over 90% of Australians are double vaccinated, then it would be very unlikely that more unvaccinated people than vaccinated people would be dying. Hence why the lack of evidence. But even when you are confronted by the reality in NSW, where only 4 of the twenty deaths were unvaccinated victims, you still keep parroting this lie like a recording. What are you going to say when 100% of Australians are vaccinated, and people are still dying with Covid-19? ALL of these victims also had up to 5 other serious comorbidities.

29 new deaths were recorded in NSW yesterday. Guess what? 22 people were double and triple vaccinated. Only 7 were unvaccinated. No one was under 50yo. And, 22 were over 80yo. But lets just ignore their ages, or their other chronic serious comorbidities! How many more of these stats will it take, before you stop spreading this misinformation? Are you then going to move on to, hospitals are being stretched to their limits by these unvaccinated again?? The truth is relative ONLY to people like you.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01...19-deaths-hospitalisations-plateaus/100781828

The only thing you, and your band of closed-minded vaccine junkies are telling me, is that I might be right, but that you just don't give a shit about the truth, or your country. Because you are certainly NOT showing me WHY I am wrong!

On this issue, even these oddballs have got it right!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
The problem with people who have fallen into conspiracy rabbit hole, i.e. shell, is that they don't want to climb out of it.
What a crock of shit. You have no idea what the conspiracy even is that you are talking about. Do you? So, what rabbit hole am I stuck in? It's you media-junkies who have fallen for this sensationalized manufactured viral apocalypse, that the facts just don't support. It's you who would rather believe in what MIGHT WILL HAPPEN, instead of what is actually happening. It is you junkies who would rather believe in fear fantasies, than in reality.

Being a citizen in any country is about following the rule of law, especially when it helps everyone else. Clearly Shell is advocating to be a hermit of own sovereign country.
So which is it? That every citizen should follow the rule of law? Or, only when the rule of law helps everyone? Are you peddling that bullshit to the people under Sharia Law? Or, the people in N. Korea and China? Just go along, to get along? Be a good sheeple! Are you an Authoritarian advocate? That is, someone who cares more for the rule of law, than about the basic freedoms of its people?

I am advocating when the rule of law MAKES YOU a hermit in your own country, you should get rid of it. Do you know how many racists, bigoted, discriminatory, sexists, inhumane, and unfair laws have been repealed in the US? We are talking about laws that force you to choose between a jab or your job. A jab or equal participation in your own society. A jab for your child, or not allowing them to attend school. Laws that blatantly incite bigotry, elitism, discrimination, and separatism. Laws that encourages Australians to dob on other Australians, and create disharmony.

Regarding these lockdown restrictions based on health orders, Australians have NO freedoms that can't be overridden by State Parliament. NONE! Even the freedom to THINK, can be overridden when a person tries to express his/her views. The US Constitution prevents this type of Authoritarianism. Those basic freedoms are sacrosanct!


All we can do is petition the government to change the law. We can also tell those seeking election, to seek elsewhere! And, that is what people like me are doing to save this country from the minds of children. People like you, will always just do as you are told! You are just part of the problem!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
are you claiming no one has been infected with covid?
I have no Idea why you would think that! But since all you do is snark and insult, it doesn't really matter.

Although I'm not good at hidden meanings, and cryptic intended meanings, I'll still take a stab, that you are just being sarcastic, ignorant, and uninformed. I think you are trying to say, that if I'm one of over 25M Australians who have NOT been infected, that this would mean that that NO ONE in Australia has been infected. Of course we would have to assume that the 1.03M people infected were all infected today(not over 2 years). Then we would have to assume that the population of Australia is only 25M people. Both assumption are silly and wrong.


In reality, the current population of Australia is 26,182,916 Australians. The total number of people infected since Jan. 2020 is 1.03M people. Now lets also ignore the number of deaths and recoveries, and see the results.

1.03M infected/26.18M population = 4% of the total population. This also means that,

0.96 x 26,182,916 = 25.14M have not been infected in over 2 years. So YES! I, and over 25M other Australians, do not have, or never have had Covid-19.

So, are you saying that I am wrong, or are you just implying that I am wrong again? So that you can deny it later?
 
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