Islamic Terrorism is BACK!

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
why? because he was Islamic? Not good enough. We don't call the Aussie guy who gets pissed off with his neighbour and stabs him to death a terrorist.
Yeah, but neighbors may stab each other to death over things like a dispute over a property line, or noise, or messing with the other's wife or family, even over issues with pets.

But the difference is that the islamist who murdered in France recently did it over speech and expression.

That murder intends to suppress speech out of fear and is, therefore, terrorism. Terrorism seeks to suppress beliefs - social, political or religious - and the freedom to express oneself.

The terrorist believes that the one who disagrees with him on these social, political or religious issues is deserving of death.

There really isn't any equivalence to the case of the neighbor, enraged over a property line dispute, who murders his neighbor.
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
That murder intends to suppress speech out of fear and is, therefore, terrorism.

is that a new definition designed to include islamists? As far as I was aware the definition of terrorism is any incident where the primary purpose is incite terror. The killing is secondary, a means to an end.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
is that a new definition designed to include islamists? As far as I was aware the definition of terrorism is any incident where the primary purpose is incite terror. The killing is secondary, a means to an end.
I don't disagree with that.

In ordinary crimes, certainly the individual victim may be terrorized. But a true terrorist is less interested in terrorizing the single victim. The terrorist uses violence and fear of violence in a deliberate attempt to influence large numbers of people, again, for political, social, or religious reasons. To that end, the terrorist targets a class of people. It may be their nationality or race or religion. Often times, the target location itself may be symbolic.

As an example, Osama bin Laden said that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were done because of the U.S. support for Israel and because of the presence of U.S. troops on muslim lands, specifically Saudi Arabia. His goal was to punish the U.S. and to place the U.S. in fear of continuing those policies. And the twin towers were symbolic of U.S. economic strength.

If a couple of racist right wing extremists rob a bank and kill a bank guard, we don't really call that terrorism, even though they are right wing extremists. It's just a bank robbery and murder. But if they attack a black church, killing some of its members, it is terrorism.
 

DonDeeHippy

Active member
Terrorism and a Terrorist was always a group or person that was invaded by a country and couldn't fight back so they go to the home country of the invader and attack the population...(irish/english war)
It shits me now to suit a few American presidents and a war on a religion it's gotten changed...
During the last Iraq war every time a yank got killed there they said it was from a terrorist... It wasn't, it was from gorilla warfare, the native population attacking a invader with home militia....
Terrorism the name had been changed to basically put down and describe Muslims..... (just like Miles just did)
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
In ordinary crimes, certainly the individual victim may be terrorized. But a true terrorist is less interested in terrorizing the single victim. The terrorist uses violence and fear of violence in a deliberate attempt to influence large numbers of people, again, for political, social, or religious reasons. To that end, the terrorist targets a class of people. It may be their nationality or race or religion. Often times, the target location itself may be symbolic.
I agree .... but in this case it sounds to me like the motivation was revenge
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
Terrorism and a Terrorist was always a group or person that was invaded by a country and couldn't fight back so they go to the home country of the invader and attack the population...(irish/english war)
It shits me now to suit a few American presidents and a war on a religion it's gotten changed...
During the last Iraq war every time a yank got killed there they said it was from a terrorist... It wasn't, it was from gorilla warfare, the native population attacking a invader with home militia....
Terrorism the name had been changed to basically put down and describe Muslims..... (just like Miles just did)
The war against the insurgency in Iraq was only partly "the native population attacking an invader with home militia." The other part was Al Qaeda, and AQ used foreigners and terrorist tactics to submit the local population. My son was there. He witnessed some horrific crimes committed by Al Qaeda against the local population. Truly depraved crimes, so depraved that I can't even write about them.
 

Squire

Active member
The war against the insurgency in Iraq was only partly "the native population attacking an invader with home militia." The other part was Al Qaeda, and AQ used foreigners and terrorist tactics to submit the local population. My son was there. He witnessed some horrific crimes committed by Al Qaeda against the local population. Truly depraved crimes, so depraved that I can't even write about them.
Your son also witnessed "truly depraved crimes" committed against Iraqis by his US military buddies.
 

DonDeeHippy

Active member
The war against the insurgency in Iraq was only partly "the native population attacking an invader with home militia." The other part was Al Qaeda, and AQ used foreigners and terrorist tactics to submit the local population. My son was there. He witnessed some horrific crimes committed by Al Qaeda against the local population. Truly depraved crimes, so depraved that I can't even write about them.
was no al Qaeda until America took Saddam out of power, he didn't like the competition....that and no WMD's
America firing the million strong army with no alternative way to fend for their families might of had something to do with it though.....
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
was no al Qaeda until America took Saddam out of power, he didn't like the competition....that and no WMD's
America firing the million strong army with no alternative way to fend for their families might of had something to do with it though.....
We should not have invaded Iraq.

But what I said was true.
 

DonDeeHippy

Active member
We should not have invaded Iraq.

But what I said was true.
Just watched a great movie called "state secrets" it's about a English whistle blower that released top secret memo from US intelligence to English saying they wanted to go to war with no evidence of WMD's and to bypass the UN..... well worth watching.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
Your son also witnessed "truly depraved crimes" committed against Iraqis by his US military buddies.
No, he didn't. You don't know what he saw. I do. There were mistakes made by American forces during the war. And there were some incidents of murder or misconduct. And civilians always become casualties in war ... a sad but unavoidable fact of war. But you don't know about the horrific crimes AQ perpetrated on the locals. There is no equivalence.
 

Squire

Active member
No, he didn't. You don't know what he saw. I do. There were mistakes made by American forces during the war. And there were some incidents of murder or misconduct. And civilians always become casualties in war ... a sad but unavoidable fact of war. But you don't know about the horrific crimes AQ perpetrated on the locals. There is no equivalence.
A million dead Iraqis is not a mistake. It is an atrocity.

Seth Bullock evidently considers incidents like this "a mistake" whereas it was actually an atrocity which high level US military officials first attempted to cover up. No officers involved in the cover-up were prosecuted.

These five 'decent' US military professionals raped and murdered a 14 year-old girl and burned her body and then killed her siblings 6, 9 and 11 years old and their two parents.

The whistleblower received death threats from other 'honorable' buddies in the military.

Evidently, Seth believes such incidents are a mistake.

A photo of the murdered girl.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmu... rape and killings,soldiers on March 12, 2006.

Mahmudiyah rape and killings
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Attack type war rape, mass murder
Deaths 4
Perpetrators 5 United States Army soldiers from Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault)
The Mahmudiyah rape and killings were war crimes involving the gang-rape and murder of 14-year-old Iraqi girl Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi and the murder of her family by United States Army soldiers on March 12, 2006. It occurred in the family's house to the southwest of Yusufiyah, a village to the west of the town of Al-Mahmudiyah, Iraq. Other members of al-Janabi's family murdered by Americans included her 34-year-old mother Fakhriyah Taha Muhasen, 45-year-old father Qassim Hamza Raheem, and 6-year-old sister Hadeel Qassim Hamza Al-Janabi.[1] The two remaining survivors of the family, 9-year-old brother Ahmed and 11-year-old brother Mohammed, were at school during the massacre and orphaned by the event.

Five U.S. Army soldiers of the 502nd Infantry Regiment were charged with rape and murder; Specialist Paul E. Cortez, Specialist James P. Barker, Private First Class Jesse V. Spielman, Private First Class Brian L. Howard, and Private First Class Steven D. Green[2]). Green was discharged from the U.S. Army for mental instability before the crimes were known by his command, whereas Cortez, Barker, Spielman and Howard were tried by U.S. Army General Courts Martial, convicted, and sentenced to prison.[2] Green was tried and convicted in a United States civilian court and was also sentenced to life in prison.[3] ...
 
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