Covid-19 Revisit

SethBullock

Captain Bullock
Staff member
Australia should have devoted more resources(money, equipment, staff, testing and vaccine centers, etc.). Provided more unbiased information regarding this virus. Including distancing, wearing masks, treatment of symptoms, self-isolation, and where to get more information and support group contacts. BUT ALL THIS MUST BE VOLUNTARY!

YES, I do want to go back to the pre-Covid-19 days, when all of our health choices were voluntary and made in private. I also want the government to be accountable for all it has done to this country. Otherwise, it will just repeat its actions again. Even high-schoolers wouldn't come up with these kind of solutions. They would have stopped at keeping people 2 meters apart. But this government will still double-down, even when it knows that its solutions are impractical and unenforceable.

Now, a "ring of steel" around Sydney? Stay within 15km of your home, and now talks of mandatory vaccines and vaccine passports? This slipper slope is just gong from bad to worse. These power-mad egoists have got to go. Don't vote for any of the main parties, because they all eat at the same expensive restaurants.

Sorry for the length. It takes me time to do the research. And I want to make sure you have all the facts.
I appreciate the fact that you take the time to research and present your point of view with some back up from sources.

But let me explain what I’m driving at.

I asked you what you would do. If you were the king of Australia, what measures would you take now?

And I think you would find yourself in a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation.

Compared to the U.S., your infection rate is very low. Your hospitalization and death rate are very low. Great!

But your civil liberties have been curtailed far more stringently than in the U.S.

If you use the U.S. as a test subject, I think you would find that this huge spike in cases we are experiencing corresponded to the guidance we received that we could open up, that masks were no longer necessary for vaccinated people, that social distancing was not necessary. I can tell you anecdotally that when we got that guidance, the masks and distancing pretty much disappeared.

And look what happened. We are right back into crisis mode. ICUs filling up, patients in hospital hallways, exhausted and demoralized medical workers, surgeons being told they cannot do surgeries except for emergencies, and government workers being told they have to vaccinate. And mark my words, private industry will probably start following suit.

And using FACTS from the U.S., you would find out that the overwhelming majority of of those people in the ICUs and hospital beds were unvaccinated. That is not said to pick on them any more than saying that the majority of people who get lung cancer are or were smokers. It’s just a fact. And with the vaccines free of charge and fully available to all, the reason they were unvaccinated is because they chose to be unvaccinated.

Another thing you can learn from our experience is that we have only about half of the total population fully vaccinated (57% partially) meaning that some 43% percent have so far chosen not to vaccinate (like you), and it is overwhelmingly among those 43% who are getting critically sick.

So now you’re the king of Australia. You have no limits on your authority.

What specific measures would you take? What is your strategy?

I am suggesting that you could drop the restrictions, drop the masking, drop the travel restrictions, fully open businesses and schools, drop the restrictions on gathering, tell people they can rely on their own immune system, etc, and in a very short time you would find yourself in the same boat that we find ourselves in here in the U.S., and it is not good.

I think you’re between a rock and a hard place.

What would you do??
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I am suggesting that you could drop the restrictions, drop the masking, drop the travel restrictions, fully open businesses and schools, drop the restrictions on gathering, tell people they can rely on their own immune system, etc, and in a very short time you would find yourself in the same boat that we find ourselves in here in the U.S., and it is not good.

I think you’re between a rock and a hard place.

What would you do??
Seth, unless you can produce any direct causal link between all these restrictive measures and the spread of this virus, then this is all just speculation and coincidence. Masks don't work, distancing don't work, the virus is airborne, vaccines don't work(they are only variant-specific), and well over 90% of victims recover anyway. So these so-called necessary restrictive measures are doing more harm to the over 90% of Americans who are not infected, than the disease ever could.

Why do you keep asking me what I would do in your hypothetical? I have answered you twice specifically, and indirectly in many other posts. So again for the last time, specifically,

I would extend more government resources to the healthcare industries.
I would provide more staff, equipment, educational materials, triage and testing facilities.
I would provide more support groups, and contact numbers for people with Covid-19.
I would encourage the media outlets to not sensationalize only selective facts and half-truths.
I would not fine or arrest anyone for not distancing themselves or wearing a mask.
I would not fine businesses for ignoring restrictions. It would encourage it to be voluntary.
I would not close down businesses, or restrict the numbers of their customers.
I would encourage anyone in the high risk group to vaccinate themselves, if they choose.
I would not close off our borders(internal of externals), and would add more testing facilities.
I would advise people that in the end, it is only your immune system that will fights the virus.
I would advise anyone under 70, that their chances of dying from covid-19 is less than 1%.
I would advise people that developing natural immunity to this virus, is preferable to any vaccine.

So no more asking, or I'll just cut and paste this section again. Using the US as a test subject to justify our restrictive measures is just silly. There are too many variables that are specific only to the US. You can't simple pick one outcome, and draw any direct link/conclusion(hasty generalization fallacy) without considering all the other variables, that I also listed before. You can't simple say that because there was no restrictions, then that must be the cause of more infections. And, then compound this absurdity by saying that, "if it happened in the US, then it WILL probably happen in Australia.". This is even worse logic. Australia is NOT America. What happens in America has NO direct link to what will happen in Australia.

Finally, as long as well over 95% of all people with Covid-19 are surviving, I will never be between a rock and a hard place. Remember people are going to die from cold or flu viruses. This has been happening for decades. Without masks, distancing, business closures, border closures, or fining and arresting people. Even the Spanish Flu and the Black Death were stopped naturally when herd immunity was reached. And, back then there were no antibodies to fight bacterial infections, or vaccines to fight the virus. Yet we are still here!

And using FACTS from the U.S., you would find out that the overwhelming majority of of those people in the ICUs and hospital beds were unvaccinated. That is not said to pick on them any more than saying that the majority of people who get lung cancer are or were smokers. It’s just a fact. And with the vaccines free of charge and fully available to all, the reason they were unvaccinated is because they chose to be unvaccinated.

Another thing you can learn from our experience is that we have only about half of the total population fully vaccinated (57% partially) meaning that some 43% percent have so far chosen not to vaccinate (like you), and it is overwhelmingly among those 43% who are getting critically sick.
Firstly, didn't you look at the video about why vaccinations should not be advised? Secondly, how many hospitals have closed their doors because they were overwhelmed by treating non-vaccinated Covid-19 patients? Thirdly, I don't give a brass razoo about your mischaracterization of those people who have RIGHTFULLY chosen NOT to weaken their own immune system by being vaccinated. People who have chosen to keep as many natural broad-spectrum non-specific variant antibodies as they can. These naturally produced antibodies are the body's main defense against any variants of any virus. Or, like all the other FACTS I deposit, be dismiss as just another inconvenient truth?

Are you saying that these terrible people should not avail themselves to hospital treatment, because it is their own fault for NOT getting vaccinated? Or, are you trying to guilt-shame them for taking beds away from critical ill patients? Such as, patients being treated for lung cancer from smoking, diabetes from obesity, cirrhosis of the liver from alcohol abuse, etc.? How many people with other critical illnesses were also unvaccinated?

Do you even know WHAT people are being treated for in the ICU's? They are being treated for the infections that the virus causes. Treating the infections gives the immune system more time to fight the virus. Unfortunately, if you reach the ICU stage, generally you ain't going to make it. Please look at these videos with an open mind. They are also based entirely of the FACTS you seem to espouse.


And using FACTS from the U.S., you would find out that the overwhelming majority of of those people in the ICUs and hospital beds were unvaccinated. That is not said to pick on them any more than saying that the majority of people who get lung cancer are or were smokers. It’s just a fact. And with the vaccines free of charge and fully available to all, the reason they were unvaccinated is because they chose to be unvaccinated.
People choose to be unvaccinated for valid and rational reasons. Facts must also be used/interpreted in their proper context. What other facts could you come up with to define people in hospital bed, other than not being vaccinated(although some were vaccinated)? What about those critically ill in ICU's with other illnesses, who are NOT vaccinated? Should they also be shamed with the same FACTS?

Choosing to not infect yourself with an antigen, that will destroy your natural broad-spectrum non-specific antibodies, is a logical and rational choice to make. Choosing to pickle your liver cells from alcohol abuse, destroy the hair(cilia) and the alveolar cells of your lungs from tobacco and nicotine abuse, or to destroy your pancreatic cells from obesity, are NOT rational and logical choices to make. So, not a very good comparison.
 

SethBullock

Captain Bullock
Staff member
I think the govt's here has got it right. The priority is saving lives. Much more important than the economy and much more important than your right to not wear a mask when out in public.
The morality of your statement is unassailable.

But we are stuck with this, I'm afraid. How or when do we go back to normal?
 

SethBullock

Captain Bullock
Staff member
Seth, unless you can produce any direct causal link between all these restrictive measures and the spread of this virus, then this is all just speculation and coincidence. Masks don't work, distancing don't work, the virus is airborne, vaccines don't work(they are only variant-specific), and well over 90% of victims recover anyway. So these so-called necessary restrictive measures are doing more harm to the over 90% of Americans who are not infected, than the disease ever could.

Why do you keep asking me what I would do in your hypothetical? I have answered you twice specifically, and indirectly in many other posts. So again for the last time, specifically,

I would extend more government resources to the healthcare industries.
I would provide more staff, equipment, educational materials, triage and testing facilities.
I would provide more support groups, and contact numbers for people with Covid-19.
I would encourage the media outlets to not sensationalize only selective facts and half-truths.
I would not fine or arrest anyone for not distancing themselves or wearing a mask.
I would not fine businesses for ignoring restrictions. It would encourage it to be voluntary.
I would not close down businesses, or restrict the numbers of their customers.
I would encourage anyone in the high risk group to vaccinate themselves, if they choose.
I would not close off our borders(internal of externals), and would add more testing facilities.
I would advise people that in the end, it is only your immune system that will fights the virus.
I would advise anyone under 70, that their chances of dying from covid-19 is less than 1%.
I would advise people that developing natural immunity to this virus, is preferable to any vaccine.

So no more asking, or I'll just cut and paste this section again. Using the US as a test subject to justify our restrictive measures is just silly. There are too many variables that are specific only to the US. You can't simple pick one outcome, and draw any direct link/conclusion(hasty generalization fallacy) without considering all the other variables, that I also listed before. You can't simple say that because there was no restrictions, then that must be the cause of more infections. And, then compound this absurdity by saying that, "if it happened in the US, then it WILL probably happen in Australia.". This is even worse logic. Australia is NOT America. What happens in America has NO direct link to what will happen in Australia.

Finally, as long as well over 95% of all people with Covid-19 are surviving, I will never be between a rock and a hard place. Remember people are going to die from cold or flu viruses. This has been happening for decades. Without masks, distancing, business closures, border closures, or fining and arresting people. Even the Spanish Flu and the Black Death were stopped naturally when herd immunity was reached. And, back then there were no antibodies to fight bacterial infections, or vaccines to fight the virus. Yet we are still here!



Firstly, didn't you look at the video about why vaccinations should not be advised? Secondly, how many hospitals have closed their doors because they were overwhelmed by treating non-vaccinated Covid-19 patients? Thirdly, I don't give a brass razoo about your mischaracterization of those people who have RIGHTFULLY chosen NOT to weaken their own immune system by being vaccinated. People who have chosen to keep as many natural broad-spectrum non-specific variant antibodies as they can. These naturally produced antibodies are the body's main defense against any variants of any virus. Or, like all the other FACTS I deposit, be dismiss as just another inconvenient truth?

Are you saying that these terrible people should not avail themselves to hospital treatment, because it is their own fault for NOT getting vaccinated? Or, are you trying to guilt-shame them for taking beds away from critical ill patients? Such as, patients being treated for lung cancer from smoking, diabetes from obesity, cirrhosis of the liver from alcohol abuse, etc.? How many people with other critical illnesses were also unvaccinated?

Do you even know WHAT people are being treated for in the ICU's? They are being treated for the infections that the virus causes. Treating the infections gives the immune system more time to fight the virus. Unfortunately, if you reach the ICU stage, generally you ain't going to make it. Please look at these videos with an open mind. They are also based entirely of the FACTS you seem to espouse.




People choose to be unvaccinated for valid and rational reasons. Facts must also be used/interpreted in their proper context. What other facts could you come up with to define people in hospital bed, other than not being vaccinated(although some were vaccinated)? What about those critically ill in ICU's with other illnesses, who are NOT vaccinated? Should they also be shamed with the same FACTS?

Choosing to not infect yourself with an antigen, that will destroy your natural broad-spectrum non-specific antibodies, is a logical and rational choice to make. Choosing to pickle your liver cells from alcohol abuse, destroy the hair(cilia) and the alveolar cells of your lungs from tobacco and nicotine abuse, or to destroy your pancreatic cells from obesity, are NOT rational and logical choices to make. So, not a very good comparison.
No, I am not saying "that these terrible people should not avail themselves to hospital treatment, because it is their own fault for NOT getting vaccinated."

What I am saying is that the information we have is that there is a huge divide between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated as far as who is in the ICUs and who is dying.

I am also saying that the dramatic rise in hospitalizations we are experiencing is placing great stress upon our health care system, and it is throwing a monkey wrench into our hopes of going back to normal.

I read through your list of things you would do if you had the power to do them. With all due respect, I think that if you implemented those policies, you would experience a dramatic jump in infections, hospitalizations, ICU beds getting filled up, and deaths. And I also think you would see what we see - that the overwhelming majority of hospitalizations and the need for ICU beds and the deaths were from among the unvaccinated.

That's what I think would happen because it is happening here, and the virus doesn't care what country you live in.
 

greggerypeccary

Active member
No, I am not saying "that these terrible people should not avail themselves to hospital treatment, because it is their own fault for NOT getting vaccinated."

What I am saying is that the information we have is that there is a huge divide between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated as far as who is in the ICUs and who is dying.

I am also saying that the dramatic rise in hospitalizations we are experiencing is placing great stress upon our health care system, and it is throwing a monkey wrench into our hopes of going back to normal.

I read through your list of things you would do if you had the power to do them. With all due respect, I think that if you implemented those policies, you would experience a dramatic jump in infections, hospitalizations, ICU beds getting filled up, and deaths. And I also think you would see what we see - that the overwhelming majority of hospitalizations and the need for ICU beds and the deaths were from among the unvaccinated.

That's what I think would happen because it is happening here, and the virus doesn't care what country you live in.
Just wait until the weather warms up, Seth.

The virus will miraculously disappear.

 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
No, I am not saying "that these terrible people should not avail themselves to hospital treatment, because it is their own fault for NOT getting vaccinated."
You kinda are Seth. And, like the government, you are just framing and peddling a narrative of half-truths. And, just wanting the majority of maladroit doofuses to fill in what is unsaid, and to draw the only conclusion you want. Otherwise, what exactly are you trying to say, by mentioning this irrelevant fact? No reason at all? Are you saying that the seriousness of unvaccinated Covid-19 victims, is caused by their choosing NOT to be vaccinated? Are you saying that if unvaccinated people WERE vaccinated, that they would NOT be in ICU's? Or, are you saying that because there are a majority of unvaccinated Covid-19 patients in the ICU's, that they are taking up more beds, more time, and are completely overwhelming the hospitals and staff? Then why else?

The job of ALL ICU's is to treat ALL serious and critically ill patients. Its job is NOT to discriminate, cast aspersions, denigrate, or to judge any of its patients. From a healthcare perspective, choice and one's lifestyle decisions are totally irrelevant. They are sick, and they need to be treated. But from a political and media perspective, it is all about perception, image, and power. "It is not about us(gov) holding your liberties to ransom, it is about those people who are failing to obey us.". "Because we really care about your health.". Clearly, it would not be in the government's best interest to mention, just how many NON-Covid-19 patients in the ICU's are also unvaccinated. Or, how many people who have recovered without the need of any vaccine. Or, just how many of these patients(ICU) were in the high risk groups. What if the majority of patients in the ICU's, were there because of smoking, drinking, or diabetic issues? Should these other health emergencies also merit a mention? Another point to ignore.

What I am saying is that the information we have is that there is a huge divide between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated as far as who is in the ICUs and who is dying.
Firstly, what are vaccinated people doing in the ICU's anyway? Aren't they vaccinated? Secondly, people don't die because they are vaccinated or unvaccinated. They die due to complications from any illness. Regardless if they are vaccinated or not. Why is this so difficult?

Please just look at the video. Maybe then you can understand why any relatively healthy person would NEVER think about being vaccinated with any mRNA vaccine. Remember, these antigen-specific, NON-broad spectrum, variant-specific antibodies, will be with you for life. And, will out-compete with all of your other primary antibodies, to fight against any future viruses. Why are you NOT addressing this point of fact?

I am also saying that the dramatic rise in hospitalizations we are experiencing is placing great stress upon our health care system, and it is throwing a monkey wrench into our hopes of going back to normal.
Are you saying that these people who choose to keep a healthy immune system, and not pollute their system with artificially induced variant-specific antibodies, are "throwing a monkey-wrench into our hopes of going back to normal."? Are you saying that the dramatic rise in the number of people hospitalized(including the stress on staff), is also caused by these unvaccinated people? Gee, maybe we should all demonize these people, like the Germans did to the Jews? These people are preventing the rest of us, from getting our freedoms back. This is just insanity talking!!

The only thing that I have learned so far. Is that if the the government tells people to eat shit once a month as a health supplement, it would be pointless to point out to them the obvious. This Saturday, I will be on another Freedom march to get our freedoms back. This nonsense has to stop. It is not working, in spite of all the ridiculous rationalizing. And, the restrictions just keep getting more oppressive and intrusive. I mean, "a ring of steel" around Sydney? Covid-19 Passports? Force to vaccinate to be employed?

In the better part of a century, no rational government has ever tried to actually stop a virus. We have always treated its symptoms, provided educational materials, or treated the virus at its source(bats). That's because even back then, we were not that moronic. The virus will run its course, until there are fewer and fewer people to infect, and fewer and fewer people to infect others. No data or specs so far has changed this obvious narrative. This also has been happening for centuries. So my evidence is historical, and can easily be shown. So what evidence can you deposit, other than parroting government sound-bites, that if we did absolutely nothing, that it might lead to another Black Death scenario?

Just manufactured hype, to justify and excuse the government's overreaching intrusion into our privacy.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
My partner and I went to the Brisbane Botanic Gardens on Sunday. We were horrified after seeing this video, of a man being arrested for not wearing a mask and exercising in the park. We went to the Garden, and refuse to wear masks.


We also noticed a group looking an infant in a pram. I said, "Is this the way the child will be learning to see the world?". "Seeing everyone wearing masks?".

Now what was once lawful behavior, has now become criminal behavior. And, still complacency abounds here.
 

SethBullock

Captain Bullock
Staff member
You kinda are Seth. And, like the government, you are just framing and peddling a narrative of half-truths. And, just wanting the majority of maladroit doofuses to fill in what is unsaid, and to draw the only conclusion you want. Otherwise, what exactly are you trying to say, by mentioning this irrelevant fact? No reason at all? Are you saying that the seriousness of unvaccinated Covid-19 victims, is caused by their choosing NOT to be vaccinated? Are you saying that if unvaccinated people WERE vaccinated, that they would NOT be in ICU's? Or, are you saying that because there are a majority of unvaccinated Covid-19 patients in the ICU's, that they are taking up more beds, more time, and are completely overwhelming the hospitals and staff? Then why else?

The job of ALL ICU's is to treat ALL serious and critically ill patients. Its job is NOT to discriminate, cast aspersions, denigrate, or to judge any of its patients. From a healthcare perspective, choice and one's lifestyle decisions are totally irrelevant. They are sick, and they need to be treated. But from a political and media perspective, it is all about perception, image, and power. "It is not about us(gov) holding your liberties to ransom, it is about those people who are failing to obey us.". "Because we really care about your health.". Clearly, it would not be in the government's best interest to mention, just how many NON-Covid-19 patients in the ICU's are also unvaccinated. Or, how many people who have recovered without the need of any vaccine. Or, just how many of these patients(ICU) were in the high risk groups. What if the majority of patients in the ICU's, were there because of smoking, drinking, or diabetic issues? Should these other health emergencies also merit a mention? Another point to ignore.



Firstly, what are vaccinated people doing in the ICU's anyway? Aren't they vaccinated? Secondly, people don't die because they are vaccinated or unvaccinated. They die due to complications from any illness. Regardless if they are vaccinated or not. Why is this so difficult?

Please just look at the video. Maybe then you can understand why any relatively healthy person would NEVER think about being vaccinated with any mRNA vaccine. Remember, these antigen-specific, NON-broad spectrum, variant-specific antibodies, will be with you for life. And, will out-compete with all of your other primary antibodies, to fight against any future viruses. Why are you NOT addressing this point of fact?



Are you saying that these people who choose to keep a healthy immune system, and not pollute their system with artificially induced variant-specific antibodies, are "throwing a monkey-wrench into our hopes of going back to normal."? Are you saying that the dramatic rise in the number of people hospitalized(including the stress on staff), is also caused by these unvaccinated people? Gee, maybe we should all demonize these people, like the Germans did to the Jews? These people are preventing the rest of us, from getting our freedoms back. This is just insanity talking!!

The only thing that I have learned so far. Is that if the the government tells people to eat shit once a month as a health supplement, it would be pointless to point out to them the obvious. This Saturday, I will be on another Freedom march to get our freedoms back. This nonsense has to stop. It is not working, in spite of all the ridiculous rationalizing. And, the restrictions just keep getting more oppressive and intrusive. I mean, "a ring of steel" around Sydney? Covid-19 Passports? Force to vaccinate to be employed?

In the better part of a century, no rational government has ever tried to actually stop a virus. We have always treated its symptoms, provided educational materials, or treated the virus at its source(bats). That's because even back then, we were not that moronic. The virus will run its course, until there are fewer and fewer people to infect, and fewer and fewer people to infect others. No data or specs so far has changed this obvious narrative. This also has been happening for centuries. So my evidence is historical, and can easily be shown. So what evidence can you deposit, other than parroting government sound-bites, that if we did absolutely nothing, that it might lead to another Black Death scenario?

Just manufactured hype, to justify and excuse the government's overreaching intrusion into our privacy.
For the last time, I am not demonizing anyone for getting sick and landing in an ICU. Demonizing is NOT the point.

THE POINT IS that this disparity (vaccinated vs unvaccinated) is telling us something. You don’t have to be an expert in virology or have superior intelligence to realize what these FACTS are telling us.

It’s as plain as conceding that seatbelts lessen the severity of injury in a car crash, and lower the death rate.

I’m not arguing that the measures your government has implemented are not oppressive. They are.

I’m not arguing that that the deaths are not caused by secondary infections that shut down the lungs.

What I AM saying is that the vaccines appear to be effective at preventing these serious life threatening symptoms from happening. Not without exception, but in the large majority of instances.

We all agree that we want to open up and go back to normal.

And I also think that in the years and decades to come, most people are going to get Covid sooner or later. That’s a lot of people.

And I agree with you that many unvaccinated people will just shake it off. We know that. But a lot of people won’t simply shake it off. They are going to end up in the hospital and in the ICUs. And they are going to be mostly people who didn’t vaccinate. That’s not simply a random opinion. That is what we are actually seeing in the US.

And that problem is not sustainable. 30-40% of the people who are unvaccinated will result in too many seriously sick and dying. 40% of our population is 132 million people. If they all get sick, and only 1% of them end up in the hospital, that’s 1.3 million people. And that situation leads us right back to lockdowns and restrictions again.

I don’t want to quibble over the numbers I just used. That’s not the point. WHATEVER the numbers are, they are too many. In just my state as an example, hospitals are contacting other hospitals looking for empty beds for patients because they are full. The governor has called out the National Guard to help the hospitals. This cannot be the new status quo. This is not sustainable. And the numbers continue to rise.

We know that only a small fraction of the people needing hospitalization are vaccinated. Therefore, we can reasonably conclude that if everyone was vaccinated, this health care crisis wouldn’t exist. Covid would still lead to SOME hospitalization and SOME deaths, just like the common flu does. But if it was knocked down to that level, life could go back to normal, just like in pre-Covid days.

So I’m going to conclude by saying that, on balance, I think having people choose to vaccinate is our way out of this mess. I don’t think fully opening up while telling people to just let their natural immune system deal with their inevitable Covid infection is going to work. It is certainly not working here in the states.

Seth
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
For the last time, I am not demonizing anyone for getting sick and landing in an ICU. Demonizing is NOT the point.
Demonizing may have been too strong. But I don't remember the context I used it in.

THE POINT IS that this disparity (vaccinated vs unvaccinated) is telling us something. You don’t have to be an expert in virology or have superior intelligence to realize what these FACTS are telling us.
And what exactly is this subjective interpreted self-serving disparity telling us, Seth?

It’s as plain as conceding that seatbelts lessen the severity of injury in a car crash, and lower the death rate.
Those are physical solutions to a physical problem. We are talking about biological solutions to biological problem. Lets stay on the same page.

I’m not arguing that the measures your government has implemented are not oppressive. They are.

I’m not arguing that that the deaths are not caused by secondary infections that shut down the lungs.
Okay.

What I AM saying is that the vaccines appear to be effective at preventing these serious life threatening symptoms from happening. Not without exception, but in the large majority of instances.
Seth, Vaccines are VERY effective in lessening symptoms. But only for that one specific pathogen. All the rest get a free pass. Your body already has the natural antibodies to fight any virus. In fact you already have the antibodies to fight the SARS-CoVid-2 virus. And, as long as you are NOT in the high risk groups, your immune system will protect you from any serious symptoms or death. It will also develop more natural broad-spectrum antibodies to protect you from any variant of the virus. This is how it has worked for eons. So, do you want to lower the number of these natural antibodies that will protect you from ALL pathogens(including their variants)? Then don't start producing unnatural specific antibodies, that will protect you from only ONE pathogen?

Whenever you introduce a man-created facsimile of a virus, or a copy of a part of a virus, or even the toxins produced from a virus, the immune system is artificially stimulated to produce a specific antibody. Hence why this antibodies will be pathogen-specific. And the more of these specialized antibodies that are produced, the less of the broad-spectrum antibodies will be produced. And, unfortunately, these specific antibodies are with you for life.

And I agree with you that many unvaccinated people will just shake it off. We know that. But a lot of people won’t simply shake it off. They are going to end up in the hospital and in the ICUs. And they are going to be mostly people who didn’t vaccinate. That’s not simply a random opinion. That is what we are actually seeing in the US.
Let me make this very clear, so you can stop repeating this misinformation. PEOPLE ARE IN ICU'S BECAUSE THEIR IMMUNE SYSTEM HAS EITHER FAILED THEM, OR IT IS IN OVERDRIVE!! That's it. It has ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER YOU HAVE BEEN VACCINATED OR NOT! If you are already vaccinated your immune system will respond to a pathogen. But only to a specific pathogen. If you are NOT vaccinated your immune system will still respond to a pathogen. But it will respond to ANY pathogen. So again it is irrelevant if you're vaccinated or not. But if you are vaccinated, pray that only that specific pathogen attacks you. Because all the rest will go through, and you will also be in ICU. Why do you think they need to give you Adenoviruses in your next two jabs? Because even the common cold virus could become lethal to your weaken immune system.

So I’m going to conclude by saying that, on balance, I think having people choose to vaccinate is our way out of this mess. I don’t think fully opening up while telling people to just let their natural immune system deal with their inevitable Covid infection is going to work. It is certainly not working here in the states.

Clearly you did not understand the video. Or, what any vaccination will do to the immune system. And clearly you will continue fear-mongering, and panicking people into destroying their own immune system. I thought that you above all would be able to see through this nonsense. Especially when the facts are in your face. But I was wrong. I really hate to see what this next flu season will be like. Now that we have gotten over 50% of the healthy population to voluntarily weaken their own natural immune system. I suppose the population could do with a little culling. Truly sad.
 

SethBullock

Captain Bullock
Staff member
Demonizing may have been too strong. But I don't remember the context I used it in.



And what exactly is this subjective interpreted self-serving disparity telling us, Seth?



Those are physical solutions to a physical problem. We are talking about biological solutions to biological problem. Lets stay on the same page.



Okay.



Seth, Vaccines are VERY effective in lessening symptoms. But only for that one specific pathogen. All the rest get a free pass. Your body already has the natural antibodies to fight any virus. In fact you already have the antibodies to fight the SARS-CoVid-2 virus. And, as long as you are NOT in the high risk groups, your immune system will protect you from any serious symptoms or death. It will also develop more natural broad-spectrum antibodies to protect you from any variant of the virus. This is how it has worked for eons. So, do you want to lower the number of these natural antibodies that will protect you from ALL pathogens(including their variants)? Then don't start producing unnatural specific antibodies, that will protect you from only ONE pathogen?

Whenever you introduce a man-created facsimile of a virus, or a copy of a part of a virus, or even the toxins produced from a virus, the immune system is artificially stimulated to produce a specific antibody. Hence why this antibodies will be pathogen-specific. And the more of these specialized antibodies that are produced, the less of the broad-spectrum antibodies will be produced. And, unfortunately, these specific antibodies are with you for life.



Let me make this very clear, so you can stop repeating this misinformation. PEOPLE ARE IN ICU'S BECAUSE THEIR IMMUNE SYSTEM HAS EITHER FAILED THEM, OR IT IS IN OVERDRIVE!! That's it. It has ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER YOU HAVE BEEN VACCINATED OR NOT! If you are already vaccinated your immune system will respond to a pathogen. But only to a specific pathogen. If you are NOT vaccinated your immune system will still respond to a pathogen. But it will respond to ANY pathogen. So again it is irrelevant if you're vaccinated or not. But if you are vaccinated, pray that only that specific pathogen attacks you. Because all the rest will go through, and you will also be in ICU. Why do you think they need to give you Adenoviruses in your next two jabs? Because even the common cold virus could become lethal to your weaken immune system.




Clearly you did not understand the video. Or, what any vaccination will do to the immune system. And clearly you will continue fear-mongering, and panicking people into destroying their own immune system. I thought that you above all would be able to see through this nonsense. Especially when the facts are in your face. But I was wrong. I really hate to see what this next flu season will be like. Now that we have gotten over 50% of the healthy population to voluntarily weaken their own natural immune system. I suppose the population could do with a little culling. Truly sad.
Shell, what we are seeing in the US is that we are “culling”, as you put it, mostly unvaccinated people. It’s not even close. I don’t think those are fake statistics, and we should learn something from them.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Shell, what we are seeing in the US is that we are “culling”, as you put it, mostly unvaccinated people. It’s not even close. I don’t think those are fake statistics, and we should learn something from them.
I was just being glib when I used the word "culling". It was not meant to be a statement of fact. Or, at least I hope that this is not the case.

Seth, I am talking about apples and you are just clinging to oranges. I am NOT questioning those facts. I am questioning the context, intent, and the perspective of why you are using those facts. I'm simply saying "SO WHAT!! What is the point that you are trying to make by stating these facts? What is it that you are inferring by stating these facts? So what, if most of the people in ICU's are unvaccinated! So what, if most of the people who are dying of Covid-19 in ICU's are unvaccinated! So what, if hospitals and staff are being stretched to their limits(although no mass closures or mass exodus of staff), because more of their patients happen to be unvaccinated! So what, if there exist a disparity between those vaccinated, and those unvaccinated in our hospitals! What exactly are you trying to infer, or imply here? I agree that hospitals can get busy, but most times they aren't.

Since we did not create, or mutate the SARS CoV-1 virus, I seriously doubt that the viruses are selectively "culling" only unvaccinated people. I think that you are just interpreting the facts to suit your own narrative(confirmation bias). Being vaccinated will certainly defend you against this one specific pathogen. But you can kiss your ass goodbye, for any variant, novel, or other viruses. I think I will just keep as many broad-spectrum antibodies as I can, thank you! I don't want them competing against any vaccine-induced NON-broad-spectrum antibodies.

Look, wearing masks, keeping your distance, and staying at home if you feel sick, are simple precautions that can't hurt. And, might even slow the spread of this virus. BUT IT SHOULD NEVER BE MADE MANDATORY! But these precautions have escalated to tracking/locator apps, fines, arrests and imprisonment, suspensions of our personal liberties and privacy, closures of our businesses, borders and industries, massive job losses, and the destruction of our economy. But, forcing people to infect themselves with an artificial non-viral antigen, which will definitely weaken their immune system for other pathogenic attacks, is definitely the last straw.

Here is more info on what vaccines can do and can't do. Remember it is the B cells of the immune system that make the broad-spectrum antibodies. These antibodies will fight any type of pathogens and their variants. These are the ones we want to keep. Not these vaccine-induced antibodies. Which can only fight ONE pathogen.


But the real irony is, that none of these health measures/restrictions work! Many times MORE people have been infected, or died AFTER the lockdown than BEFORE the lockdown began. Masks were never intended to work. Viruses are too small, and can enter through the eyes or the sides of the masks. Distancing is impractical, and impossible to enforce(viruses are suspended in the air, you take them off to eat and drink, and people walk by you). The stats only show a viral pattern, nearly the same as all of the past viral patterns. There were no lockdowns back then.

These measures were never intended to fight any virus(including this relatively non-lethal virus). These measures were only a placebo, intended to give the appearance of fighting against a virus. And, to placate the fears that the government caused in the first place. The reality being that there is NOTHING man can physically do to stop a virus(other than wear a fully-contained hazmat suit at the bottom of a swimming pool). There is no man-made treatment to stop a virus directly. Only our own bodies can directly stop a virus.

The virus can only be stopped, as more and more people are infected, and more and more people recover, which will leave less and less people that can be infected. That's nature's intended way. The rest is just Hype, Hope, and smoke and mirrors. If you believe that what we are doing is slowing or stopping this virus, then lets see the evidence that supports this direct link. Please, just think, and do the research. Please question anything that has to do with your body, and your freedom.

Also, you are the government Seth. The power given to the governed is the power of the people. This power was written in the Preamble, and in the very 1st Amendment to the Constitution. If you want things to go back to normal, then just tell the government this. You are NOT sheep! They are all civil servants. The only power that we have to control any politician is our vote. Just tell him/her that they are out of a job for screwing up your lives. This madness will end once people start to wake up to the power that THEY already have. Please, write, e-mail, phone, text, or even visit your local state or federal representatives, and tell them this. This is going too far. It is NOT the virus is destroying our economy, our society, our industries, our jobs, or our freedoms. IT IS THE F***ING government. And we are just letting them do it. Just because of the F***ING flu!! And, some F***ING good actors. This is insane.
 

SethBullock

Captain Bullock
Staff member
I was just being glib when I used the word "culling". It was not meant to be a statement of fact. Or, at least I hope that this is not the case.

Seth, I am talking about apples and you are just clinging to oranges. I am NOT questioning those facts. I am questioning the context, intent, and the perspective of why you are using those facts. I'm simply saying "SO WHAT!! What is the point that you are trying to make by stating these facts? What is it that you are inferring by stating these facts? So what, if most of the people in ICU's are unvaccinated! So what, if most of the people who are dying of Covid-19 in ICU's are unvaccinated! So what, if hospitals and staff are being stretched to their limits(although no mass closures or mass exodus of staff), because more of their patients happen to be unvaccinated! So what, if there exist a disparity between those vaccinated, and those unvaccinated in our hospitals! What exactly are you trying to infer, or imply here? I agree that hospitals can get busy, but most times they aren't.

Since we did not create, or mutate the SARS CoV-1 virus, I seriously doubt that the viruses are selectively "culling" only unvaccinated people. I think that you are just interpreting the facts to suit your own narrative(confirmation bias). Being vaccinated will certainly defend you against this one specific pathogen. But you can kiss your ass goodbye, for any variant, novel, or other viruses. I think I will just keep as many broad-spectrum antibodies as I can, thank you! I don't want them competing against any vaccine-induced NON-broad-spectrum antibodies.

Look, wearing masks, keeping your distance, and staying at home if you feel sick, are simple precautions that can't hurt. And, might even slow the spread of this virus. BUT IT SHOULD NEVER BE MADE MANDATORY! But these precautions have escalated to tracking/locator apps, fines, arrests and imprisonment, suspensions of our personal liberties and privacy, closures of our businesses, borders and industries, massive job losses, and the destruction of our economy. But, forcing people to infect themselves with an artificial non-viral antigen, which will definitely weaken their immune system for other pathogenic attacks, is definitely the last straw.

Here is more info on what vaccines can do and can't do. Remember it is the B cells of the immune system that make the broad-spectrum antibodies. These antibodies will fight any type of pathogens and their variants. These are the ones we want to keep. Not these vaccine-induced antibodies. Which can only fight ONE pathogen.


But the real irony is, that none of these health measures/restrictions work! Many times MORE people have been infected, or died AFTER the lockdown than BEFORE the lockdown began. Masks were never intended to work. Viruses are too small, and can enter through the eyes or the sides of the masks. Distancing is impractical, and impossible to enforce(viruses are suspended in the air, you take them off to eat and drink, and people walk by you). The stats only show a viral pattern, nearly the same as all of the past viral patterns. There were no lockdowns back then.

These measures were never intended to fight any virus(including this relatively non-lethal virus). These measures were only a placebo, intended to give the appearance of fighting against a virus. And, to placate the fears that the government caused in the first place. The reality being that there is NOTHING man can physically do to stop a virus(other than wear a fully-contained hazmat suit at the bottom of a swimming pool). There is no man-made treatment to stop a virus directly. Only our own bodies can directly stop a virus.

The virus can only be stopped, as more and more people are infected, and more and more people recover, which will leave less and less people that can be infected. That's nature's intended way. The rest is just Hype, Hope, and smoke and mirrors. If you believe that what we are doing is slowing or stopping this virus, then lets see the evidence that supports this direct link. Please, just think, and do the research. Please question anything that has to do with your body, and your freedom.

Also, you are the government Seth. The power given to the governed is the power of the people. This power was written in the Preamble, and in the very 1st Amendment to the Constitution. If you want things to go back to normal, then just tell the government this. You are NOT sheep! They are all civil servants. The only power that we have to control any politician is our vote. Just tell him/her that they are out of a job for screwing up your lives. This madness will end once people start to wake up to the power that THEY already have. Please, write, e-mail, phone, text, or even visit your local state or federal representatives, and tell them this. This is going too far. It is NOT the virus is destroying our economy, our society, our industries, our jobs, or our freedoms. IT IS THE F***ING government. And we are just letting them do it. Just because of the F***ING flu!! And, some F***ING good actors. This is insane.
You asked "so what?" Read through this. This is what is "so what?".

The headline is that a Covid patient died while hospital staff had no ICU beds available. But there is much more in the article.

 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
You asked "so what?" Read through this. This is what is "so what?".

The headline is that a Covid patient died while hospital staff had no ICU beds available. But there is much more in the article.

Why do you keep misrepresenting anything I say? I am NOT saying that hospitals, aged and home-care facilities, or every healthcare facility in the entire state is NOT being overwhelmed. I'm saying what is the point you are trying to make? What are you trying to say, by stating these facts? Since you keep denying every point that I claim you are making, then SO WHAT to whatever claim you ARE trying to make. That was the true context of my statement. What if a patient died in a hospital waiting room while waiting for an empty bed, because the beds were full of airline-crash victims. Or, full of victims from a massive car pile-up? Or, victims of Legionnaires disease from a convention? From a medical/treatment perspective, it will also be SO THE F**k WHAT! Any preventative measures are totally irrelevant.

What is the job of all ICU's and hospitals? To treat ALL sick and seriously ill people. Covid-19 can certainly become a serious illness. When it does, it must be treated as well. trying to imply or infer blame on people for NOT being vaccinated, NOT wearing a mask, NOT keeping 2 meters apart, or NOT following all the restriction measures, are all totally irrelevant to their being treated. Or, to the burden that they might place on the entire healthcare system. It is just another indirect way to guilt-shame unvaccinated people to get vaccinated. And, to be like the rest of us who choose to destroy the primary healthy antibodies(B cells) of your immune system.

Regarding your fear-mongering and what ifs hypotheticals, your article says,

"..if someone gets in an accident or has a heart attack or need for acute care … they may not get the care in as timely of a fashion as normal,”.

NOT, that seriously ill people will NOT receive treatment, as you seem to be implying. You are just fear-mongering, to guilt-shame people to become vaccinated with an artificial antigen. You want people to weaken their natural immune system, and destroy their primary defense-antibodies(over time). Just to bargain with the government, to get back the freedoms the freedoms they took away from us in the first place. You clearly have no idea of the power that we all have when we stand united.

 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Why is this vaccine being promoted so much? Why does everyone need to be vaccinated? What affect does vaccines have on our natural immune system? How many healthy people(not in the risk group) are dying after being infected by this disease? Why all the urgency to be vaccinated from this disease? A disease that only has less than a 2% fatal rate in Australia, the US, and in the entire world(the Ebola virus is 50%-80% fatal)? Even SARS CoV-1 is 11% fatal. And, no lockdowns then!!


Why are we not seeing any red flags? Do people really want to weaken their own immune system, by producing new antibodies that are only specific to ONE pathogen? Are people ignoring all those who recover naturally? Don't people care about the obvious reasons why masks and distancing don't work, and was never meant to work? Can't people see the slippery slope we will create, if we keep escalating these preventative restrictions? Only an insane moron would destroy an entire country, just to save one life. Especially, when over 99% of Australians, ARE NOT EVEN INFECTED!!! This is exactly what the power of the media can do. Appeal to the ignorant and the gullible. Is this who Australians really are?

Fortunately, not all Australians are blinded by all the bullshit. And, can see past the fear-mongering and meaningless political platitudes. We will be out on the streets tomorrow. Getting back our freedoms, and to show the government just who they are suppose to be representing. My freedoms are certainly worth more than the thousand dollar fines or even being imprisoned. We are NOT criminals. We are just ordinary Australians, who simply don't want to become prisoners in our own country. We don't want to be watch, followed, manipulated, and moved around like pawns by this government. We don't want to be told, where to go, when to go, who we can be with, or what we should be doing.
 
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